# People who read Harry Potter and nothing else (kinda lame) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918 "2004-02-12T21:05:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/81 "2004-02-13T16:51:02Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s ironic that ones who hate “elitism” and “snobbishness” would be so judgmental and condescending. Say what? You are the one is being “judgmental and condescending” by popping into a thread discussing the fantasy genre to proclaim it to be “junk.” That’s threadcrapping and it’s not much appreciated here. Most people here have at least a BA, many have Master’s and JD’s as well, so your claims to be better educated don’t fly well, either. In any event, your degree has no relevance to the cogency of your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Greyson3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/258eb7/32.png) [@Greyson3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greyson3)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/82 "2004-02-13T18:24:06Z")
As somebody who spent a large portion of my childhood puttering about the juvenile section of the local library, I can attest that books about wizard schools were hardly uncommon. They were particularly prevalent in British children’s literature, for some reason. Check out most books by Diana Wynne Jones (whose work I hated, incidentally) for a good example. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_of_the_CC)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/83 "2004-02-14T00:39:16Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Ah, there’s nothing better than stimulating conversation among well-read people. Pass the scones, Mr. Priceguy, and tell me again about your thesis on the final chapter of _Ulysses_. Holy shit, you’re a dick. Just amazing. I knew that elitism like this existed but before you came along I didn’t know _literary_ elitism came this harsh. I’ve only seen musical elitism reach your level. Please, do us all a favor, shut the hell up. On the OP’s topic, I think you shouldn’t really blame them for not running “a 5 second search”. People don’t read HP and then do searches to see if every noun in an original. Of course, if they insist they are right and you are wrong when you try to correct them, sure, they suck. It’s just, if someone assumes hippogriffs were invented by Rowling and that there is no need for a search, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/84 "2004-02-14T00:46:06Z")
> [@Earl of the CC](#): > > On the OP’s topic, I think you shouldn’t really blame them for not running “a 5 second search”. People don’t read HP and then do searches to see if every noun in an original. Of course, if they insist they are right and you are wrong when you try to correct them, sure, they suck. It’s just, if someone assumes hippogriffs were invented by Rowling and that there is no need for a search, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Well, I _did_ assume that hippogriffs were invented by JKR, _didn’t_ bother to search. But I would have done before emailing someone to ask about it! OTOH, if I’d picked hippogriff as an example (I’m damn sure SOME things were invented by JKR) and was wrong, then I’d say that’s more excusable… so much depends on content. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/85 "2004-02-14T01:45:34Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by tdn_ > In Harn, there is the Guild of Arcane Lore. It has a subguild called the Shek-P’var. P’varic schools are called chantries. (And “muggles” are called “kvikir.”) That guild is further divided into 6 schools – Lyahvi (light and illusion), Peleahn (fire and heat), Jmorvi (metals), Fyvria (living tissue), Odivshe (coldness and water), and Savorya (the mind). > > Getting into a chantry is not easy – one must not only have innate talent, but grease the palms of enough Viran (masters), provided one can find them. (They’re not easy to spot, as they don’t wear silly pointed hats. In fact, chantries themselves appear to be nothing more than a wealthy person’s home, or a warehouse.) > > Applicants enter a chantry usually at the age of 14, as apprentices. They go out into the world hopefully around the age of 21, as journeymen. Most will never attain the rank of grandmaster. This is why I hate fantasy. So much complicated backstory that adds nothing to the story (for me). I much prefer Rowling’s wizard school, where it’s just like the school I went to, except with different subjects and moving staircases. Leaves more time for story and characters and all that good stuff without having to worry about silly names for everything and weird administrative structures. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/86 "2004-02-14T01:56:26Z")
Flippin’ 'eck, I’d have expected someone with a degree in literature at least to have _heard_ of Ariosto and _Orlando Furioso_. Maybe even E. R. Eddison, who also features hippogriffs. (And who is on my bookshelves, along with Ursula Le Guin, Diana Wynne Jones, William Shakespeare, and Fyodor Dostoevsky, and others, in various proportions. Not to mention a number of books on heraldry, which _also_ talk about flippin’ hippogriffs.) My point? You don’t _have_ to be a nerd to know what a hippogriff is. Or a Harry Potter fan. (Nothing against Harry Potter, but I haven’t read any. Yet.) ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/87 "2004-02-14T06:53:51Z")
> [@HDS](#): > > But she did invent big bearded guys that ride motorcycles, right? 'Cause that was cooooooool. Oh, please. We all know ZZ Top invented that. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/88 "2004-02-14T07:55:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Dante, right? I choked on my cough drop, thank you very much. Ack, menthol. **Skutir** , if I might offer a word to the wise: back off and cool down. Jump in on some other thread that fancies you. It’s easy to get buried in a pile-on in the Pit. Just let it go, and continue to participate elsewhere. If you acquit yourself well, most people will forget about this thread in time. To compare your behavior to something not related to literature, it would be as if a thread on Buddhism suddenly had a western missionary post his opinion that most of Buddhism was crap. Or, to characterize the frustration of the OP in a way that’s clearer to you, it would be as if someone only read Shakespeare and asked if ol’ Bill had invented Zeus. It’s no wonder you’re on the defense. Feel free to throw around your credentials. However, I have witnessed Bigger Credential Smackdown on this board and it’s not a thing you want to happen to you. 😛 **Regarding the OP:** Yeah, kind of a shame about those folks, but I almost envy their pleasant surprise if they ever pursue other fantasy reading. She has neatly encapsulated fantasy and horror and magic mythos into one book as a primer for an entire _world_ of literature. If those people ever pick up other books—or heck, see other movies—they’ll realize that Rowling was only consolidating the myths, not creating them. To me, that’d be a fun revelation. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/89 "2004-02-14T12:11:06Z")
Let me refine my earlier question: Had anyone previously done done a wizard school book that is also a coming-of-age story like Harry Potter? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/90 "2004-02-14T12:18:24Z")
> [@lucwarm](#): > > Let me refine my earlier question: Had anyone previously done done a wizard school book that is also a coming-of-age story like Harry Potter? I don’t remember how old Ged is in _A Wizard of Earthsea_, but it certainly has the feel of a coming-of-age story. It’s been fifteen years since I read it; can anyone who’s read it more recently back me up or shoot me down? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/91 "2004-02-14T12:41:01Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > I don’t remember how old Ged is in _A Wizard of Earthsea_, but it certainly has the feel of a coming-of-age story. It’s been fifteen years since I read it; can anyone who’s read it more recently back me up or shoot me down? I think it’s fair to call it a coming-of-age story, but if I remember correctly (and it’s been at least a decade since _I’ve_ read it!) the majority of the story takes place outside the wizard’s school. The _Harry Potter_ series is unusual, possibly even unique, in that the wizard’s school is the focus and primary setting. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/92 "2004-02-14T14:40:06Z")
The funny thing(to me, and I apologize if someone pointed this out and I didn’t notice it) is that hippogriffs sound to me like an idea rather than an expression. If they are an idea, they are not copyrightable and it doesn’t matter whether Rowling was the first to imagine them or not. Expressions are copyrightable, so using hippogriffs that look and act too much like hers could be a problem, but only if they look and act like hers in ways that are not intrinsic to the idea. (example, one could write a book about a kid going to wizard school, that’s an idea. A Wizard school with houses called Ravensclaw and Griffendor, etc. would be expression and be copyrightable. (unless there is greater significance to those names than I think there is. And besides, anyone taking advice only from me on copyright is silly)) There is much greater flexibility granted to the written word than there is to visual images. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/93 "2004-02-14T15:00:16Z")
English Lit majors aren’t nerds themselves? Could of fooled me. I like the “working at Barnes and Nobles” comment though, LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Greyson3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/258eb7/32.png) [@Greyson3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greyson3)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/94 "2004-02-14T15:01:33Z")
> [@lucwarm](#): > > Let me refine my earlier question: Had anyone previously done done a wizard school book that is also a coming-of-age story like Harry Potter? Most certainly. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/95 "2004-02-14T16:10:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Most certainly. Err, and the titles and authors would be . . .? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/96 "2004-02-14T21:35:12Z")
skutir writes: \> Stanislaw Lem was kicked out of the Science Fiction/Fantasy Writer’s guild \> because he went into a harangue at a conference and said most of the stuff \> being published under that label was crap. No. Please don’t post about things that you don’t know much about. Up to 1976, Lem had been an honorary member of the SFRA. He had for years said things about how most SF was crap. He was hardly the first person to say that. Theodore Sturgeon said at a conference about 1960 that 90% of SF was crap, but then 90% of everything was crap. Lem had annoyed some members of SFRA, and they voted to pull his honorary membership. They then offered him a regular membership. He declined. See here: [http://www.cyberiad.info/english/faq/faq.htm#sfwa](http://www.cyberiad.info/english/faq/faq.htm#sfwa) I know lots of longtime (say, at least 10 years) SF fans. They all admit that 90% of SF is crap. They all admit that 90% of everything is crap. Many of them have read a lot of literature in general, so they know what they are talking about. Don’t judge SF fans by a couple of teenagers you know who read their first SF a couple of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/97 "2004-02-15T00:23:16Z")
> [@lucwarm](#): > > Let me refine my earlier question: Had anyone previously done done a wizard school book that is also a coming-of-age story like Harry Potter? There was Jill Murphy’s _The Worst Witch_ series, which was made into an HBO TV series years before Rowling started in on Harry Potter. I’m sure there are others. It’s not a dramatically original idea, by any means. But what is, these days? In support of the OP, while I certainly don’t expect hippogriffs to be common knowledge to any casual reader of sf, it should be obvious from context that it’s not an original idea. Pretty much everything else in Harry Potter comes from other fantasy or mythological sources, so why would anyone think the hippogriff is an exception, unless they also think that centaurs, basilisks, phoenixes, or what have you are _also_ original to Harry Potter? I also think, generally, that there’s very little that’s worth reading in the fantasy genre. However, seeing as I only have a lowly BA in literature, I’m forced to concede that that is simply my humble opinion, and not objective fact. But once I finish (or, indeed, start) grad school, watch out, world! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/98 "2004-02-15T00:47:26Z")
The thing about hippogriffs is, they’re a double impossibility. They’re a cross between a horse and a griffon\*. Which is impossible because griffons are mythical beasts, and can’t breed with horses. But it’s also impossible because griffons are notorious for _eating_ horses, not breeding with them, so even if there _were_ such a thing as a griffon, a hippogriff would still be impossible. I’m told (this is the Pit, I don’t need fucking cites. Having said that, it could be referenced in Borges’ _Book of Imaginary Beings_.) that “breeding horses with griffons” is a metaphor for an impossible undertaking. So, by involving hippogriffs in _Orlando Furioso_, Ariosto is actually underlining the fantastical nature of his text. What J. K. Rowling is doing with them is anybody’s guess, I told you I haven’t read any Harry Potter. \*Griffin, gryphon, however you want to spell it, they’re imaginary monsters not bloody proofreaders, they’re not going to complain. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/99 "2004-02-15T01:02:57Z")
Well, depending on how they’re portrayed, hippogriffs (despite the name) may not even be a crossbreed of horse and griffon, but rather of horse and eagle. I’ve seen representations with leonine forepaws, and I’ve seen representations with talons. The taloned ones would seem not to require any intervention of actual griffons. ---
**Author:** ![Greyson3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/258eb7/32.png) [@Greyson3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greyson3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918/100 "2004-02-15T01:39:17Z")
> [@lucwarm](#): > > Err, and the titles and authors would be . . .? Charmed Life. [Check it, G.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0688155464/qid=1076808562//ref=pd_ka_1/104-9285027-1759166?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) From a review: > [@](#): > > a charming British YA fantasy that far predates the Harry Potter mania. Fans of Harry Potter might like this; it has a similar enough plot–young orphaned boy with awful relatives is taken to a place where his talents can begin to expand. (there were plenty more, but it has been a while since I could check out a pile of books in the kid’s section without being embarassed) I can’t for the life of me figure out why Harry Potter has eclipsed all books of this particular genre. It’s pretty well standard. I guess it is all just a matter of luck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-read-harry-potter-and-nothing-else-kinda-lame/228918.md?page=6)