# People who Say the Moon Landing was Faked **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636 "2012-01-15T21:31:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/81 "2013-01-19T20:06:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s been over fifty years since we landed on the Moon. If NASA was making things up, they’d have faked a manned mission to Mars by now. Cancelled. Budget cuts. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/82 "2013-01-19T20:43:34Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > first of all, one guy thought he was god. i cannot over emphasize how abysmal god’s grammar was–and that’s coming from a dude who won’t stretch his little finger over to capitalize shit. Y’see, that’s the difference between you and the “u cant make me spel rite” people–you have a sense of humor about your glaring inadequacy. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/83 "2013-01-19T21:26:33Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, and moon landing hoaxers have presented evidence that the moon landing was hoaxed. No, they haven’t. That’s where your “argument” falls apart. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/84 "2013-01-19T23:44:40Z")
I figure for a “claim” to mature into “evidence”, it can’t be shown wrong in 30 seconds or less. Of course, that’s only the beginning. Evidence has to stand up to whole _minutes_ of scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/85 "2013-01-20T00:02:03Z")
> [@Claptree](#): > > Excepting all the people that worked on the project, why didn’t the Soviet Union claim it was a lie? They would have had an interest in making the US look stupid, surely. Maybe they faked their landings, too? > [@Nightfall1](#): > > The moon landings were real, what the government won’t tell you is that the spaceships were piloted by Big Foots. Big FEET! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/86 "2013-01-20T00:20:27Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Yes. So what? But how do you know India exists? Have you questioned that claim? No? Why not? > [@](#): > > How can you know if there is a reasonable area of doubt unless you or somebody else out there considers the evidence on both sides? You can’t, but the evidence “for both sides” does not always require scrutiny. In many cases the evidence for Case A is simply so overwhelming that looking into Case B is not a productive expenditure of time. The sky is blue. Lake Ontario is wet. It will probably hurt if I jump out my bedroom window (I live on the 15th floor.) How much time should I dedicate to challenging those claims? None. I am not going to spend my time “questioning” whether Queen Elizabeth is a reptilian alien, because that is so unlikely as to be unworthy of consideration. It is generally very easy to know the silly shit from genuine controversy. I have an IQ above that of a hamster, as do most adults. Most people can,\* not perfectly but with a fairly high degree of accuracy, \*filter out claims that are simple facts from claims that are controversial from claims that are dubious from claims that are probably bullshit. If someone says to me “The capital of France is Paris,” that is a fact. It is possible in theory that a gigantic conspiracy has been perpetrated and that Paris is not the capital of France, but I am not going to “question” that unless shocking evidence comes up. But some things are controversial (“Cutting Social Security benefits will hurt old people”) and some things are dubious/bullshit - for instance, a few years ago there were ads running in Canada asking for donations because, according to the ads, “one in three kids can’t play organized sports because they can’t afford it.” That immediately set off my bullshit detector. Why? Well, a lot of reasons: - It’s a suspiciously convenient fraction - It is difficult to believe it’s true, given the low cost of many sports and wealth of Canadians - It directly contradicts my personal experience - The ads were run by a company that sells sporting equipment and so stood to directly make money from an effort to buy more sporting equipment for children So I questioned it. I looked into the facts. As it turns out it was bullshit, but who knows, maybe next time I’ll find out a dubiouos claim was true. Moon hoax claims, frankly, belong in the same pile as Holocaust deniers and people who say Barack Obama was born in Kenya; it’s just such colossal bullshit that it’s not worth my time to investigate until something pretty big comes up that proves it isn’t colossal bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/87 "2013-01-20T00:33:48Z")
I suspect that the real motive here isn’t about the moon landing, but that a certain poster’s favorite pet subject of scientific racialism. If we only opened our eyes to the possibility that certain races are superior to others instead of taking common sense facts for granted… ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/88 "2013-01-20T00:36:15Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, they haven’t. That’s where your “argument” falls apart. Yes they have. You need to learn the difference between “evidence” and “proof.” ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/89 "2013-01-20T00:44:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But how do you know India exists? Have you questioned that claim? Yes, of course I have. Many times I have wondered if the entire universe – including India – is a simulation. Anyway, please just state your point about India and I will tell you if I agree with it or not. TIA. > [@](#): > > You can’t, Well there you go. > [@](#): > > but the evidence “for both sides” does not always require scrutiny. In many cases the evidence for Case A is simply so overwhelming that looking into Case B is not a productive expenditure of time. That may very well be. It depends on a lot of factors – the evidence, the amount of time, the individuals involved, etc. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/90 "2013-01-20T00:46:11Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I suspect that the real motive here isn’t about the moon landing, but that a certain poster’s favorite pet subject of scientific racialism. If we only opened our eyes to the possibility that certain races are superior to others instead of taking common sense facts for granted… Lol, nice attempt at well-poisoning. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that I am a complete skinhead. It doesn’t affect the merit of my argument one bit. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/91 "2013-01-20T00:48:15Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Moon hoax claims, frankly, belong in the same pile as Holocaust deniers and people who say Barack Obama was born in Kenya; it’s just such colossal bullshit that it’s not worth my time to investigate until something pretty big comes up that proves it isn’t colossal bullshit. Indeed, and there is something else that \*\*brasil84 \*\*misses. when he says that "I think there is value in thinking critically – or at least attempting to think critically – about whether the moon landing was faked or not. " There is the problem that that line of thinking is just an invitation to ignore history, not just the historical record of the moon landings and technical evidence, but to ignore the history and the mess of critical discussions that took place all over the world and even here in the dope, regarding the common mistakes and lack of corrections made by the moon hoax conspiracy theorists. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/92 "2013-01-20T00:48:27Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Yes they have. You need to learn the difference between “evidence” and “proof.” Both from [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com). > [@](#): > > Evidence:The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. > > Proof:Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement. So do you. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/93 "2013-01-20T00:50:19Z")
As previously mentioned on this thread, it’s not like the US didn’t have enemies during this era. I would ask him for official Soviet documents and pronouncements stating the moon landing was faked (other than statements made for mass consumption.) For example, an article in Pravda wouldn’t work, but KGB communiques that state that the Soviet State is (er, was) certain that the landings were faked, their reasons for this belief, and how they think the Americans faked it. I’m sure people in the USSR have made that argument, but if so, how did they fail to convince Brezhnev? What were the arguments used that convinced _him_ the US succeeded? (I didn’t realize this thread was 90+ posts in, so if somebody else made the same point, my apologies.) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/94 "2013-01-20T01:00:43Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I suspect that the real motive here isn’t about the moon landing, but that a certain poster’s favorite pet subject of scientific racialism. If we only opened our eyes to the possibility that certain races are superior to others instead of taking common sense facts for granted… Well, if you think about it, he sounds a lot like a postmodernist with a side of “not checking what was discussed before”. But what I’m saying here is that there is no need to point at him about not knowing much about history, not knowing much biology, not much about a science book.. But I do know that I would love… 🙂 to see you stick to the moon landings. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/95 "2013-01-20T01:02:45Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, nice attempt at well-poisoning. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that I am a complete skinhead. It doesn’t affect the merit of my argument one bit. The only use of examining the claims of moon hoax deniers is for entertainment value, or for knowing some of the fallacies they use so that when you encounter a hoaxer “in the wild” you might have the tools to debunk them on hand. But I know exactly what you are doing and I just find it highly amusing how transparent you are about it. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > But I do know that I would love… 🙂 to see you stick to the moon landings. 😛 He isn’t, I’m just pointing it out. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/96 "2013-01-20T01:08:35Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > He isn’t, I’m just pointing it out. [A little whoosh there](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderful_World_(Sam_Cooke_song)), 🙂 (Although I have to say it is uncanny how Sam Cooke got brasil’s number before he was born. 😉 ) But I mostly agree with you, I just wanted to investigate the latest crazy moon hoax ideas, I was getting bored of the same old from him. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/97 "2013-01-20T03:01:56Z")
Before Truthers, Birthers, and now the Sandy Hook truthers, I used to consider the Moon Hoax crew to be the slimiest conspiracy nutjobs around. Other conpsiracies I could see some emotional need for, but the Moon hoaxers were just vandals. The bored kids of the CT crowd who slash tires and spray paint on walls just because they are bored and want to break something more capable people made. Their evidence is pathetic. It depends on the target not being familiar with some basics of science. Their method is classic not seeing the forest for the trees. These nuts would scan the footage for ‘anomalies’ while ignoring how impossible it would be to have a 14 hour non-stop 1 take scene with rigging set up for 1/6th g. Oh, and they lie about their own credentials. There isn’t a prominent Moon hoaxer who hasn’t done some serious resume padding. It fun when they get caught, too. when Jay Windley ([clavius.org](http://clavius.org)) tells the tale of how one of the hoaxer begged and pleaded with him not to reveal how his engineering credentials were purely the product of his imagination I get a warm fuzzy almost as good as when I see Buzz deck Bert Sibrel. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/98 "2013-01-20T05:25:57Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Yes they have. You need to learn the difference between “evidence” and “proof.” No, they haven’t. And you need to learn the difference between reality and ramblings of utter lunatics. The latter is what that supposed proof/evidence offered up by the Moon landing deniers happens to be. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/99 "2013-01-20T11:03:34Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Both from [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com). > > So do you. I’m not sure I understand your point. Let me ask you this: Suppose John asserts that the moon-landing was faked and the way he knows it is that his uncle who worked for NASA told him so. Would you say John’s statement counts as evidence that the moon landing was faked? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636/100 "2013-01-20T11:07:23Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > The only use of examining the claims of moon hoax deniers is for entertainment value, I disagree . . . I think it’s useful to scrutinize their evidence and arguments. > [@](#): > > But I know exactly what you are doing and I just find it highly amusing how transparent you are about it. Nonsense, but please feel free to assume for the sake of argument that I have an agenda whether carefully hidden or blatantly transparent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-say-the-moon-landing-was-faked/609636.md?page=6)