# People Who Smoke in the Car with Children in Them **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964 "2013-03-25T22:43:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/1 "2013-03-25T22:43:38Z")
Why would anyone ever think this was ok? Explain to me, if you do smoke in the car around children what makes you think that is alright. It is an absolute shame you are so bound to your addiction that you are willing to give a child ear infections, increased risk of respiratory infections, and SIDS. YOU ARE KILLING YOUR CHILDREN. This should be considered child abuse and people who do this should be put in jail. Why isn’t it illegal to smoke in a car with children in it? They have no choice but to breathe in those poisonous fumes you selfish dick. What triggered this Pit was me pulling into a parking lot on Saturday and seeing a woman with two small children in the back seat of her car who couldn’t have been older than 6, with just her window cracked to let out a little smoke. Does the moron really think the cracked window makes any difference? :mad: > [@CDC](#): > > Secondhand Smoke Causes SIDS > > SIDS is the sudden, unexplained, unexpected death of an infant in the first year of life. SIDS is the leading cause of death in otherwise healthy infants. Secondhand smoke increases the risk for SIDS. > > ``` > Smoking by women during pregnancy increases the risk for SIDS. > Infants who are exposed to secondhand smoke after birth are also at greater risk for SIDS. > Chemicals in secondhand smoke appear to affect the brain in ways that interfere with its regulation of infants' breathing. > Infants who die from SIDS have higher concentrations of nicotine in their lungs and higher levels of cotinine (a biological marker for secondhand smoke exposure) than infants who die from other causes. > > ``` > > Secondhand Smoke and Children > > Secondhand smoke can cause serious health problems in children. > > ``` > Studies show that older children whose parents smoke get sick more often. Their lungs grow less than children who do not breathe secondhand smoke, and they get more bronchitis and pneumonia. > Wheezing and coughing are more common in children who breathe secondhand smoke. > Secondhand smoke can trigger an asthma attack in a child. Children with asthma who are around secondhand smoke have more severe and frequent asthma attacks. A severe asthma attack can put a child's life in danger. > Children whose parents smoke around them get more ear infections. They also have fluid in their ears more often and have more operations to put in ear tubes for drainage. > > ``` [http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data\_statistics/fact\_sheets/secondhand\_smoke/health\_effects/](http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/health_effects/) ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/2 "2013-03-25T22:51:13Z")
I second this. What a bunch of assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/3 "2013-03-25T22:51:28Z")
I’m 50 years old. When I was a child, my father smoked 1.5-2 packs a day. When he smoked in the car, he refused to roll down the window because it bothered him. So we all got smoked (so to speak). None of us has cancer, none of us has asthma. Not that I’m defending the practice, but hysterical “oh won’t someone think of the children!” reactions always bother me. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/4 "2013-03-25T22:52:55Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Why isn’t it illegal to smoke in a car with children in it? Because smokers vote too, and place their addictions above the health of children. That being said, smoking with children in the car is banned in some jurisdictions, but as with much social legislation, the USA is dragging its feet. [For example](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_bans_in_private_vehicles#Canada): > [@](#): > > Smoking with anyone under the age of 16 present in a vehicle is currently banned in the Provinces of British Columbia, Newfoundland and Labrador, Manitoba, Ontario, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Saskatchewan and Yukon Territory. Smoking is banned in vehicles with persons under the age of 19 present in Nova Scotia. > > . . . . > > A smoking ban in cars with children already exists in Arkansas, California, Hawaii, Louisiana, Maine, and Maryland. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/5 "2013-03-25T22:56:05Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’m 50 years old. > > When I was a child, my father smoked 1.5-2 packs a day. When he smoked in the car, he refused to roll down the window because it bothered him. So we all got smoked (so to speak). > > None of us has cancer, none of us has asthma. > > Not that I’m defending the practice, but hysterical “oh won’t someone think of the children!” reactions always bother me. The reason I am thinking of the children is because they don’t have a choice. They can’t get out of the car with a smoker in it, they can’t choose alternate transportation, they are passive victims to something I think should be criminal. Smoking doesn’t just cause obvious outward signs of damage, it causes children’s lungs to be underdeveloped , there is a link to heart disease and second hand smoke. And how was my post hysterical? There is a clear link between infant death and smoking. That is fact, not hysteria. P.S. I had to laugh at the ban in Arkansas. IMHO, it is not enforced at all. I see plenty of people smoking in the car around children in my neck of the woods. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/6 "2013-03-25T23:14:53Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’m 50 years old. > > When I was a child, my father smoked 1.5-2 packs a day. When he smoked in the car, he refused to roll down the window because it bothered him. So we all got smoked (so to speak). > > None of us has cancer, none of us has asthma. > > Not that I’m defending the practice, but hysterical “oh won’t someone think of the children!” reactions always bother me. So are you saying smoking cannot cause/exacerbate cancer/asthma? If not, then what is the point of your anecdote? Why is it bad to feel strongly about child abuse? ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/7 "2013-03-25T23:45:47Z")
But here’s the thing… people who smoke with their kids in the car smoke at home. And outside. And during smoke breaks at work. So even if you limit the parents’ ability to smoke in one place, you’re not going to stop children’s exposure from other places (in the home, on the parents’ clothing/hair, etc). What makes smoking in cars worse than smoking period? I say this as someone who grew up with a chain-smoker (who smoked at home and in the car with the windows rolled up, and who insisted on sitting in the smoking section of restaurants when there was such a thing), and who is most definitely opposed to smoking around kids. I just think that if we’re not willing to go the full gamut- forcing people to use only e-cigs or not smoke at all, ever- then we’ve sort of reached the pinnacle of what we _can_ do; limit the ‘public’ areas that allow smoking. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/8 "2013-03-25T23:49:22Z")
I can say, after reading that report, that I would never smoke around an infant (I’m an ex-smoker anyway, but if I ever started up again). The immune and cardiovascular systems of an infant are naturally much frailer than those of an older child or adult. And even a small risk of increasing the odds of a SIDS death is too much, especially if it’s a kid I know and care about. I also don’t think infants ought to be exposed to other things that are acceptable for older children (like television, spicy foods, and being left home alone), because they’re fucking infants. Until/unless a fully-causal link between SIDS and SHS has been established, I think it’s premature to legislate away the right of adults to smoke where they like on private property (in the car, in the home, in the yard, whatever). However, I don’t think it would be out of line to provide new parents with educational materials about the information on links between cotinine/nicotine and SIDS (if that isn’t already happening). However, I want to point out that the fact that smoke smells bad is a stupid, superficial reason to prevent kids from being exposed to it. My parents smoked in the car with me for as long as I could remember. At the time, it was an unpleasant event that I had no control over. Other similar events included getting grounded, washing dishes, and eating my broccoli. Being a kid necessitates lots of stuff that kids don’t like; that’s not a reason to stop doing that stuff. Anyway. Instead of legislating away the right of people to smoke where they like, why not legislate a [better method of cigarette manufacturing](http://www.ecnmag.com/news/2012/01/researchers-make-less-carcinogenic-cigarette) so they contain fewer carcinogens? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/9 "2013-03-25T23:51:13Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’m 50 years old. > > When I was a child, my father smoked 1.5-2 packs a day. When he smoked in the car, he refused to roll down the window because it bothered him. So we all got smoked (so to speak). > > None of us has cancer, none of us has asthma. > > Not that I’m defending the practice, but hysterical “oh won’t someone think of the children!” reactions always bother me. I’m 52 as of yesterday, I can recall the exact moment that I decided to never smoke cigarettes. I was maybe 7, sitting on my dad’s lap “driving” his pickup, him smoking a cigarette that was right next to my face. I said it out loud right then, “When I get old enough to do what I want to, I’m never going to smoke”. And I never did. So it might not have done me any good at the time, but in the long term it sure kept me from ever wanting to try a cigarette. Thanks, dad! ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/10 "2013-03-25T23:51:15Z")
the car thing is more visible and enforceable. It’s harder to catch people smoking at home. Got to start somewhere. Fortunately the restaurant thing has been largely taken care of. For the record I don’t hate smokers, and I don’t need to take cigarettes away from them, I just think they should be smart enough to not expose people, esp children, to their smoke. Why is that so much to ask? ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/11 "2013-03-25T23:54:24Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > So even if you limit the parents’ ability to smoke in one place, you’re not going to stop children’s exposure from other places (in the home, on the parents’ clothing/hair, etc). Well for one thing, it’s a quite small enclosed space (if the windows are not open), so it is extremely easy for the smoke to hit all parts of the car within seconds, at least the smell (the smell might take a bit longer). Also, while children might still be exposed to smoking in the house, first of all, it’s not as small of a space (unless you live in a shack), and it’s quite easy for the child to just run upstairs or something. And if you are talking about the general smell that stays on house items, etc, then that’s third-hand smoke, less dangerous than second-hand smoke. Personally, I think smoking in any enclosed space is wrong, and you should do your business outside (and even that ruins the environment, but oh well), but smoking in the same house is significantly less idiotic (well, all smoking is pretty idiotic, but again, oh well) than smoking in the same car. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/12 "2013-03-25T23:57:57Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > However, I want to point out that the fact that smoke smells bad is a stupid, superficial reason to prevent kids from being exposed to it. My parents smoked in the car with me for as long as I could remember. At the time, it was an unpleasant event that I had no control over. Other similar events included getting grounded, washing dishes, and eating my broccoli. Being a kid necessitates lots of stuff that kids don’t like; that’s not a reason to stop doing that stuff. Are you kidding me? That’s bullshit. I _exceptionally_ disagree. What makes you think it’s okay for your child to suffer the smell of cigarette smoke? That thing smells like shit! And one time, I smelled that thing for one second, and boy was I pissed. Those things, “Getting grounded, washing dishes, eating broccoli,” are necessities and things that children need to learn how to do. Learning how to “endure cigarette smoke” isn’t. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/13 "2013-03-26T00:03:24Z")
…or “endure cigarette smell” rather, to be more precise. But the point stands. And also, “getting grounded”, is a punishment for misbehavior. Washing dishes is a house chore that children need to learn. Eating broccoli are important for getting the correct nutrition (although there are tons of alternatives if the child doesn’t like it). But there’s no point in learning how to “endure cigarette smell”, not is that an effective (or fair) punishment. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/14 "2013-03-26T00:09:02Z")
And shoot, I made a couple of grammatical mistakes and missed the edit window. For the last sentence it’s “nor”, not “not”. And it’s not, “…broccoli are…” but, “…broccoli is…” ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/15 "2013-03-26T00:24:22Z")
My youngest sister smokes and has an 18 month old and is also about 2 months pregnant. She does smoke outside (not in the home or vehicle) but does not wash her hands afterwards before picking my niece up. She’s a pack a day smoker. My niece has chronic infections and in her short year and a half has been on antibiotics three times already. They suspect she has asthma and she always has runny eyes and nose. She coughs and is horse more often than not. But my mom and dad smoked around us girls and we all turned out fine (Except one of us had cancer twice as a teenager and the other is completely infertile…related? Not sure.) so mom backs up my sister’s decision to smoke. I of course have some resentment at the fact that the unhealthiest of us three girls is the one who gets knocked up the easiest, but come ON. Don’t you want your child to live the healthiest life they can? Sure, I’ve heard people say things like ‘but there are so many other toxic things we live with’, well duh. But adding to the pile is ok? Ugh. Drives me cray.zee. ---
**Author:** ![diggerwam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@diggerwam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggerwam)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/16 "2013-03-26T00:24:52Z")
Nah, I’m sorry, all these things my parents did like smoke in the car, not have car seats, letting us ride in the back of a pickup truck/station wagon while facing backwards, not having a bicycle helmet, letting us play with metal lawn darts, etc…I can’t really get on board that it was all child abuse. I just don’t buy that the definition of child abuse changes from generation to generation. It wasn’t optimal then, it’s not now, but JC unwind those panties. We survived (except the ones who didn’t) and you may have asthma and I have a scar on my head but you know, calm down. Life happens and we adapt to it. There is no way to protect everybody from everything, and even if there was, it wouldn’t be a fun existence. My sisters have some breathing issues, I don’t. Were they just unlucky? Was I lucky? We grew up in the same house. No way to know. Different inputs affects different people differently. Can’t protect yourself (or your kids) from every possible bad outcome. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/17 "2013-03-26T00:26:31Z")
I am utterly startled at the lack of sympathy in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/18 "2013-03-26T00:26:53Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Are you kidding me? That’s bullshit. I _exceptionally_ disagree. What makes you think it’s okay for your child to suffer the smell of cigarette smoke? That thing smells like shit! And one time, I smelled that thing for one second, and boy was I pissed. > > Those things, “Getting grounded, washing dishes, eating broccoli,” are necessities and things that children need to learn how to do. > > Learning how to “endure cigarette smoke” isn’t. > > :rolleyes: Should we not also outlaw fat people farts and ethanol plants? And I don’t have a kid, you hysterical whackjob. Isn’t it past your bedtime? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/19 "2013-03-26T00:30:00Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > My youngest sister smokes and has an 18 month old and is also about 2 months pregnant. She does smoke outside (not in the home or vehicle) but does not wash her hands afterwards before picking my niece up. She’s a pack a day smoker. > > My niece has chronic infections and in her short year and a half has been on antibiotics three times already. They suspect she has asthma and she always has runny eyes and nose. She coughs and is horse more often than not. But my mom and dad smoked around us girls and we all turned out fine (Except one of us had cancer twice as a teenager and the other is completely infertile…related? Not sure.) so mom backs up my sister’s decision to smoke. > > I of course have some resentment at the fact that the unhealthiest of us three girls is the one who gets knocked up the easiest, but come ON. Don’t you want your child to live the healthiest life they can? Sure, I’ve heard people say things like ‘but there are so many other toxic things we live with’, well duh. But adding to the pile is ok? Ugh. Drives me cray.zee. She smokes and is pregnant? :eek: I can’t even begin to explain how angry that makes me. :mad: Again, with documented illness caused by smoking around children and while pregnant why isn’t this considered child abuse? And for the poster who said the definition of child abuse changes, well of course it does. We no longer have children working in factories, because that was eventually considered abuse. The definition changed because we became more aware of the damage it did to children. For things not to change would be a sign of willful ignorance, not steadfastness. That is moronic to think the definition shouldn’t change as we become more aware of the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/20 "2013-03-26T00:31:06Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Should we not also outlaw fat people farts and ethanol plants? Yes, but at least those things aren’t dangerous like smoking, and those are also things that cannot be avoided. You can’t avoid farting, and you can’t avoid going to a gas-station (and those things aren’t dangerous). Smoking, you can. It’s called a tiny bit of self-control and patience to stop and get out of the car. > [@Rachellelogram](#): > > And I don’t have a kid, you hysterical whackjob. Isn’t it past your bedtime? I didn’t mean to imply so, but whatever. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964.md?page=2)