# People Who Smoke in the Car with Children in Them **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964 "2013-03-25T22:43:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/41 "2013-03-26T01:54:34Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Being overweight is going to do far more long term damage to a child than being exposed to second hand smoke is. Cite? There are a lot of false assumptions present in this thread, so it is best to back up statements like this with evidence and/or sound reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/42 "2013-03-26T01:55:19Z")
> [@diggerwam](#): > > I was born in 1970. My mother was a registered nurse. She was fully aware or at least she should have known that it wasn’t a great idea, but went ahead anyway. There are lots of things I can complain about my parents and their nurturing skills, their smoking habits really don’t make the top 20. I’m sorry. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/43 "2013-03-26T02:04:15Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Explain. > Because if that was just a personal dig at me, you are an idiot. :rolleyes: > Us evil Mormons with the no drinking, smoking, and healthy eating. What a horrible way to raise a child. :le sigh: Raising a child to be a Mormon is raising a child to believe in lies. It promotes the intellectual retardation of the child and of society as a whole once those children grow up and continue the cycle of spreading disinformation. Mormons encourage discrimination against homosexuals and the sexual repression of heterosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/44 "2013-03-26T02:06:57Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Raising a child to be a Mormon is raising a child to believe in lies. It promotes the intellectual retardation of the child and of society as a whole once those children grow up and continue the cycle of spreading disinformation. Mormons encourage discrimination against homosexuals and the sexual repression of heterosexuals. Again, my **OP** was about the physical risks of second hand smoke to children. I said nothing about religion or my opinion on religion. Your comparison is null and void and irrelevant to the topic on hand. Nice try though. If you want to Pit the Mormon Church, start your own thread and stop shitting on mine. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/45 "2013-03-26T02:08:52Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Cite? > > There are a lot of false assumptions present in this thread, so it is best to back up statements like this with evidence and/or sound reasoning. I can’t believe I’m dignifying this with a response, but here you go: > **[Obesity | Effects on health](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity#Effects_on_health)** > > Obesity increases a person's risk of developing various metabolic diseases, cardiovascular disease, osteoarthritis, Alzheimer disease, depression, and certain types of cancer. Depending on the degree of obesity and the presence of comorbid disorders, obesity is associated with an estimated 2–20 year shorter life expectancy. High BMI is a marker of risk for, but not a direct cause of, diseases caused by diet and physical activity. > Obesity is one of the leading preventable causes of death worldwid... [http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/obesity/facts.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/obesity/facts.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/46 "2013-03-26T02:13:24Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Again, my **OP** was about the physical risks of second hand smoke to children. I said nothing about religion or my opinion on religion. Your comparison is null and void and irrelevant to the topic on hand. Nice try though. If you want to Pit the Mormon Church, start your own thread and stop shitting on mine. You think you have the right to dictate to others how best to parent their children. I brought up religion because plenty of people have very different opinions on what is harmful to children. And you never answered my question. Should the parents of obese children be punished for harming the health of their children? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/47 "2013-03-26T02:16:54Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I don’t want to condemn individual parents, Yes, you do. You want to pass blanket judgement and talk shit about what awful parents they are as a group, and that group is made up of individual parents. Your stance in this thread, that people who smoke in cars with children are horrible, stupid, and abusive (but not _your_ parents, Various Posters)…well, that’s like saying that black people are lazy, thieving, etc. etc (but not _you_, Specific Black Person.) If you’re going to issue a blanket condemnation of a group, you have to accept that you’re condemning the entire group, and and that group is made up of individuals. > [@](#): > > But it was a pretty dumb thing for them to do. Aren’t you the woman who was putting off seeking medical attention for massively pre-term contractions because it would be inconvenient and muck up the other kids’ schedules? The one who wouldn’t even call the doctor because you were sure he’d want you to come in? And you’re going to talk about someone else’s dumb parenting choices? About how putting your kid in danger is abuse? Really? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/48 "2013-03-26T02:24:59Z")
I know it’s bad, but I don’t really care. All of you rending your garments over “child abuse”; have you ever seen _really_ abused or neglected children? I guess not. Smoking around kids just doesn’t register for me. I mean, yeah, it’s bad. Don’t do it. But it isn’t fucking abuse. One of the absolute best moms I’ve ever seen smoked while she was pregnant with her first child, and during the first couple of years. I’m sure she wishes she hadn’t, just like every parent regrets the bad choices they make. No one is perfect. Do your best, but let’s not get nutty here. It’s isn’t abuse. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/49 "2013-03-26T02:25:18Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Yes, you do. You want to pass blanket judgement and talk shit about what awful parents they are as a group, and that group is made up of individual parents. Your stance in this thread, that people who smoke in cars with children are horrible, stupid, and abusive (but not _your_ parents, Various Posters)…well, that’s like saying that black people are lazy, thieving, etc. etc (but not _you_, Specific Black Person.) If you’re going to issue a blanket condemnation of a group, you have to accept that you’re condemning the entire group, and and that group is made up of individuals. > > Aren’t you the woman who was putting off seeking medical attention for massively pre-term contractions because it would be inconvenient and muck up the other kids’ schedules? The one who wouldn’t even call the doctor because you were sure he’d want you to come in? And you’re going to talk about someone else’s dumb parenting choices? About how putting your kid in danger is abuse? Really? And I went anyway because it was what was best for my unborn child, despite my own personal feelings and my legitimate concerns for the welfare of my already born children. What is your point? And yes, I do condemn all parents and adults who smoke around children. Now what? Also comparing race and smoking, are you for serious or just being obtuse? And **SoE** , I have no opinion on child hood obesity as a parenting issue. I don’t know enough about it to form a concrete opinion one way or the other. How about you? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/50 "2013-03-26T02:29:45Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I know it’s bad, but I don’t really care. > > All of you rending your garments over “child abuse”; have you ever seen _really_ abused or neglected children? I guess not. . I have. My mom was a DCS social worker and I was a residential counselor at a treatment facility for abused and neglected children. There are things much worse than second hand smoke, but it is so easily prevented, why needlessly put your children at risk for no other reason than your addiction? It is physically harmful, therefore abusive. It’s not a stretch or hyperbole. It is fact. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/51 "2013-03-26T02:34:13Z")
P.S. 30 weeks isn’t massively preterm, the term is very premature\* though I wouldn’t want to have her right now if I can prevent it. I have been to the ER twice, take weekly progesterone shots, and am now on procardia. So you can shove it with your baseless accusation that I am putting my unborn child at risk. I am doing everything I can, because I can. I expect the same of other parents and adults. \*Over 95% of premature babies born between 27 and 30 weeks gestation survive. Although these babies are very immature and may face serious health problems, most of them recover from their premature birth with few long term effects of prematurity. > **[Very Premature Babies Can Have Many Short and Long-Term Health Problems](https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-a-very-premature-baby-2748630)** > > Find out what long-term and short-term health problems a very premature baby (one that is born prior to 32 weeks gestation) might have. ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/52 "2013-03-26T04:33:59Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I have. My mom was a DCS social worker and I was a residential counselor at a treatment facility for abused and neglected children. There are things much worse than second hand smoke, but it is so easily prevented, why needlessly put your children at risk for no other reason than your addiction? It is physically harmful, therefore abusive. It’s not a stretch or hyperbole. It is fact. I was an abused kid. They smoked. The beatings and rape were much worse than smelling smoke. IMHO, of course. I’m one of those smokers who can go years and then something happens and I smoke one cig and then I’m back to a pack a day. When I’m smoking, I don’t smoke in my home or car because I have cats and don’t want to expose them to the poison I’m sucking into my lungs. I get the risk to children’s small lungs. I just don’t agree that more laws should be passed to distract attention from bigger issues. The Child Protection Agencies are overwhelmed. Should one of the case workers go out to scold a dad who was smoking in the car, or go out to check on a kid who fell off her swing for the third time in a month? ---
**Author:** ![mufatango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@mufatango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mufatango)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/53 "2013-03-26T14:43:30Z")
A bit of a sidetrack, but the proximity of the adult smoker to the child who receives secondhand exposure may not be as important as is commonly assumed. [LINK](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10227268) Studies looking at nicotine exposure by measuring cotinine (a breakdown metabolite of nicotine) are a decent way of measuring total cigarette exposure. Multiple small-scale studies don’t show a striking difference in levels in kids whose parents smoke outdoors only compared to kids whose parents smoke indoors. Smoke particles are inhaled, absorbed and metabolized by people who have any close contact with a smoker even when the smoker is not smoking. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/54 "2013-03-26T15:43:24Z")
I am old enough to have been a child back in the heavy smoking days. My memories of family vacations was hours in a closed car (because we had that newfangled air-conditioning thing) with the cigarette smoke so thick I could hardly see out the front window. At home and at work the smoke was thick and everpresent. I worked in bars, full fo smoke. When I started “real” work in the 80’s our office was full of smokers and there was a visible layer of smoke in the room at all times. My point being, they weren’t all morons 30 years ago, they just managed to go “everybody does it” because everyone really was doing it. Nobody could have possibly thought it wasn’t bad for kids, they just didn’t bother to think about it at all I guess. Whatever mental gymnastics smokers (like my dad) went through to justify it back then are still going on today. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/55 "2013-03-26T16:14:11Z")
My mother smoked throughout her pregnancy with me (my sister too), and routinely smoked in the car with us as kids, until one day when she threw her cigarette out the window when she was finished with it - but it didn’t go out the window, it went into the backseat and left a nasty burn on my arm. She didn’t smoke in the car after that. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/56 "2013-03-26T16:50:26Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I have. My mom was a DCS social worker and I was a residential counselor at a treatment facility for abused and neglected children. There are things much worse than second hand smoke, but it is so easily prevented, why needlessly put your children at risk for no other reason than your addiction? Because the parent is addicted? I mean, apparently you’re a Mormon, so you probably have no life experience here to draw from, but nicotine addiction is real and extremely difficult to overcome. Again, it isn’t ideal. But, I’ve never seen a parent that _was_ ideal in every way. > [@](#): > > It is physically harmful, therefore abusive. It’s not a stretch or hyperbole. It is fact. I disagree. I very much oppose stretching the definition of “child abuse” to contain every physically\* harmful potential a parent can anticipate. I understand it’s bad, and I understand getting upset about it. But calling it child abuse makes me roll my eyes, frankly. It’s obvious to me (and many others in this thread) you haven’t thought this through at all, because the fallout of declaring smokers _de facto_ abusive parents\*\* and jailing them and placing the kids in foster care would be catastrophic. There is this trend now where parents are expected to be absolutely perfect at all times, and that any tragedy can be avoided by constant hyper-vigilance. It’s stupid and wrongheaded, and I oppose it completely. There is no perfect parent. There is no perfect family. There is no perfect safety. Life is a series of risks, some of which are avoidable, but most of which have to be negotiated in some way. Different people draw the line in different places, and (in America, at least) this is to be supported. One more time, **I do not think smoking around kids is “good” or “right”. I just don’t consider it child abuse.** Smoking across the board is on it’s way out, and I know of no one who smokes who isn’t either trying to quit, or talking about future plans to quit. I am glad this is so, smoking is terrible for you! But, honestly, this comes across as just more piling on an already incredibly maligned group of people. Really, take their kids?! Jail them??! \*and why only physical? Who gets to decide that, and what makes you think the definition would stay there? \*\*and yes, it would be all parents who smoke, since as was shown above, smoking outside does almost nothing to reduce the harm. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/57 "2013-03-26T17:29:09Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > I was an abused kid. They smoked. The beatings and rape were much worse than smelling smoke. IMHO, of course. > > I’m one of those smokers who can go years and then something happens and I smoke one cig and then I’m back to a pack a day. When I’m smoking, I don’t smoke in my home or car because I have cats and don’t want to expose them to the poison I’m sucking into my lungs. > > I get the risk to children’s small lungs. I just don’t agree that more laws should be passed to distract attention from bigger issues. The Child Protection Agencies are overwhelmed. > > Should one of the case workers go out to scold a dad who was smoking in the car, or go out to check on a kid who fell off her swing for the third time in a month? You make a good point. Plus, what happened to you is much worse than second hand smoke, I would never say otherwise. Diverting resources from DCS to go after second hand smokers would be ridiculous. Maybe just make it an offense like not waring a seat belt? I am not adverse to compromise and amending my stance when presented with a sound argument. Again, my greatest sympathies for what you went through. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/58 "2013-03-26T17:31:30Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Because the parent is addicted? I mean, apparently you’re a Mormon, so you probably have no life experience here to draw from, but nicotine addiction is real and extremely difficult to overcome. Again, it isn’t ideal. But, I’ve never seen a parent that _was_ ideal in every way. I wasn’t always Mormon. I am a convert. Don’t assume you know anything about me And, to clarify, I never said to take children away or jail parents. Maybe legally labeling it abuse would be excessive in the eyes of the law, but I see no reason why it should be at least a punishable in some way, like littering, seat belt wearing, following the speed limit, talking on your cell phone while driving, keeping your tags up to date, etc. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/59 "2013-03-26T17:37:55Z")
That should say “shouldn’t be punishable” ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964/60 "2013-03-26T17:39:21Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > And, to clarify, I never said to take children away or jail parents. > [@April\_R](#): > > This should be considered child abuse and people who do this should be put in jail. No comment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-smoke-in-the-car-with-children-in-them/653964.md?page=4)