# People who think using the ligature "æ" makes them look smart are wankers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 21, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219 "2008-03-21T14:10:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/61 "2008-03-21T20:27:13Z")
**What Exit?** , it’s a full keyboard, but several years old. I have function keys #s 1-12 but no Fn key. I’m using Firefox though. I wonder if that could be the problem. (No, that’s not it apparently, as I can’t type the characters in Notepad either.) **Lobohan** , don’t know what sort of booby trap you laid there, but I thought I’d try it anyway (:D) and I merely get a dialog asking if I want to close my tabs. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/62 "2008-03-21T20:30:05Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] **What Exit?** , it’s a full keyboard, but several years old. I have function keys #s 1-12 but no Fn key. I’m using Firefox though. I wonder if that could be the problem. (No, that’s not it apparently, as I can’t type the characters in Notepad either.) **Lobohan** , don’t know what sort of booby trap you laid there, but I thought I’d try it anyway (:D) and I merely get a dialog asking if I want to close my tabs. [/QUOTE] One more possibilty, are you keeping the alt key depressed the entire time you type out the 4 number code? You have to keep the alt keep depressed. Alt F X is the keyboard shortcut to Exit in most programs. Luckily Firefox prompted you first. More good keyboard shortcuts. Hold the Windows Key down and hit E to bring up windows Explorer. Windows F = Search Windpows D = Minimize all windows to show Desktop Windows Break (pause/break key) = Windows Properties Ctrl Enter on a Icon = Properties of the Icon. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/63 "2008-03-21T20:45:22Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] One more possibilty, are you keeping the alt key depressed the entire time you type out the 4 number code? You have to keep the alt keep depressed. [/quote] Yes, I was keeping it depressed. Even tried pressing them all at the same time. My computer is an E Machines cadged from my nephew and built of sundry parts. [QUOTE=What Exit?] Alt F X is the keyboard shortcut to Exit in most programs. Luckily Firefox prompted you first. [/quote] I suspected as much when I got the dialog. 😃 [QUOTE=What Exit?] More good keyboard shortcuts. Hold the Windows Key down and hit E to bring up windows Explorer. Windows F = Search Windpows D = Minimize all windows to show Desktop Windows Break (pause/break key) = Windows Properties Ctrl Enter on a Icon = Properties of the Icon. [/QUOTE] Thanks, I appreciate the info. Maybe I’ll make a list of all these to keep handy, although a need for special characters doesn’t come up that often and I can always cut/paste from somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/64 "2008-03-21T21:39:07Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] It’s not really “extra” - PC people call it ‘Alt’. [/QUOTE] Well yes! What I should have said is that on the Mac OS the keyboard shortcuts are much easier for typing in special characters. You don’t need to memorize ASCII codes. For example, to do an accent grave is one combination. So to do any vowel with an accent grave, you only need to remember the combination for the accent grace and then right after that type in the vowel. On Windows, I have to remember a different number for each vowel+accent grave. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/65 "2008-03-21T21:59:31Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Yes, I was keeping it depressed. Even tried pressing them all at the same time. My computer is an E Machines cadged from my nephew and built of sundry parts. [/QUOTE] Sorry if this is obvious, but you are using the numeric keypad with NumLock active? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/66 "2008-03-21T22:06:45Z")
No, I’m using the number keys on the row just above the letters. But now that you mention it, let me try turning on NumLock and hitting the numeric keypad… æ Eureka! There it is! Thanks, **Paul** (and **What Exit?** ) for your help in this thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/67 "2008-03-21T22:10:53Z")
[QUOTE=drachillix] Festooning with Umlauts Band Name! [/QUOTE] Shouldn’t that be Fǽŝŧööňïňğ wïŧħ ǖmłǽǖŧŝ? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/68 "2008-03-21T22:18:31Z")
Yes, but can you do a ŭ? Or a ĝ? ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/69 "2008-03-21T22:33:53Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] Well yes! What I should have said is that on the Mac OS the keyboard shortcuts are much easier for typing in special characters. You don’t need to memorize ASCII codes. For example, to do an accent grave is one combination. So to do any vowel with an accent grave, you only need to remember the combination for the accent grace and then right after that type in the vowel. On Windows, I have to remember a different number for each vowel+accent grave. [/QUOTE] No you don’t. Control ` is a grave accent, control ’ is an acute accent, control ^ is a circumflex, control , is a cedilla, control : is an umlaut. To accent a character, you do one of those control combinations followed by the letter you want to accent. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/70 "2008-03-21T22:44:25Z")
[QUOTE=elmwood] ˙sɹǝʇɔɐɹɐɥɔ lɐıɔǝds ǝɹnɔsqo ɹnoʎ ɥʇıʍ 'sɹǝʞuɐʍ snoıʇuǝʇǝɹd ɟo ɥɔunq ɐ ʇsnɾ llɐ ǝɹ,noʎ [/QUOTE] What. The? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/71 "2008-03-21T22:47:59Z")
[QUOTE=Chimera] And here I thought I’d be cool by trying to resurrect [Thorn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_%28letter%29) [/QUOTE] If you can use it correctly and not screw it up, go right ahead. faðer - father þorn - thorn ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/72 "2008-03-21T23:17:46Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] What. The? -FrL- [/QUOTE] ˙doʇdɐl ɹnoʎ ɟo ǝpıs ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo ƃuıɹǝǝd uosɹǝd ʎdoous ǝɯos ǝʌɐɥ noʎ uǝɥʍ ʎpuɐɥ uı ǝɯoɔ sɹǝʇɔɐɹɐɥɔ ǝsǝɥʇ ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/73 "2008-03-21T23:18:40Z")
[QUOTE=Litoris] There’s a subtle distinction in the pronounciation of æ and ae, and I like the difference for his name. [/QUOTE] What **is** the correct pronunciation of æ (or of ae, for that matter)? I’m inclined to ponounce it “aaiieeeeee!” but I’m probably wrong, since I don’t speak Latin or whatever-the-hell language that thingy comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/74 "2008-03-21T23:33:24Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] What **is** the correct pronunciation of æ (or of ae, for that matter)? I’m inclined to ponounce it “aaiieeeeee!” but I’m probably wrong, since I don’t speak Latin or whatever-the-hell language that thingy comes from. [/QUOTE] I always thought it was just the a sound in cat. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/75 "2008-03-21T23:39:04Z")
I always thought it was the sound of a long e, i.e., the _Encyclopædia Britannica_. ---
**Author:** ![Litoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@Litoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Litoris)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/76 "2008-03-22T00:26:25Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] What **is** the correct pronunciation of æ (or of ae, for that matter)? I’m inclined to ponounce it “aaiieeeeee!” but I’m probably wrong, since I don’t speak Latin or whatever-the-hell language that thingy comes from. [/QUOTE] It’s hard to explain via text, but it’s more of a gutteral sound than either a or e make on their own. Hopefully, one of the resident linguists can help, but it’s almost like what you imagined, only more gutteral and fast. No one really uses the sound anymore in regular English, I think, but ever since I had a teacher (gosh, way back in grade school) who insisted that we always prnounce Æsop correctly, it has stuck in my head and I’ve liked the way it sounds. Really, while I pronounce my son’s name with the Æ sound, I don’t expect anyone else to, so on the rare occasion his first name is brought up, it’s just pronounced like Aiden/Aden/Adin or whatever the common spelling is now. Oh, and FTR, he is the only Aedin in his age group (he’s 8), the name didn’t get popular until the last couple years. ETA – wiki says it is pronounced like long I, that almost gets it – it is a gutteral long I sound. Interestingly enough, Wiki also says it is used in the International Phonetic Alphabet to denote the short a sound as in cat. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/77 "2008-03-22T01:01:22Z")
Hmm. I thought that, originally, regular a was like the a in ‘father’; æ was the North American pronunciation of a in ‘cat’, and e was as in ‘fed’. Thus, æ was halfway between a and e. But I tend to see it as an a+ee diphthong. Edit: Heh. I just put ‘æ’ by itself into Wikipedia’s search field, and it came back with [this page titled ‘Æ’](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86). ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/78 "2008-03-22T01:57:30Z")
/æ/ is the low, front, unrounded vowel (American usage) or, erm… (flips through IPA book)… low, front, unrounded vowel in IPA – lower than /ε/, higher than /a/ in both. What word you might use it in will probably vary by what accent you have. Basically dropped out of English with the Great Vowel Shift, IIRC. /ae/ is just a diphthong – it’s _two_ vowels, smooshed together. They’re not interchangable, and someone who uses the one for the other is, indeed, a wanker. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/79 "2008-03-22T02:10:43Z")
[QUOTE=Canadjun] No you don’t. Control ` is a grave accent, control ’ is an acute accent, control ^ is a circumflex, control , is a cedilla, control : is an umlaut. To accent a character, you do one of those control combinations followed by the letter you want to accent. [/QUOTE] Cool tip. That’s not an OS thing, btw. It seems to only work in Microsoft Word. For example, it doesn’t work in this reply window. I’m guessing it does on the Mac. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219/80 "2008-03-22T02:26:09Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] /æ/ is the low, front, unrounded vowel (American usage) or, erm… (flips through IPA book)… low, front, unrounded vowel in IPA – lower than /ε/, higher than /a/ in both. What word you might use it in will probably vary by what accent you have. Basically dropped out of English with the Great Vowel Shift, IIRC. /ae/ is just a diphthong – it’s _two_ vowels, smooshed together. They’re not interchangable, and someone who uses the one for the other is, indeed, a wanker. [/QUOTE] I think it’s pretty wankerish to name somebody using IPA phonetic notation instead of English letters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-using-the-ligature-ae-makes-them-look-smart-are-wankers/442219.md?page=5)