# People Who Think Zoos should be Eliminated, Let Me Ask You This Question. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 8, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341 "2017-02-08T18:57:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/41 "2017-02-08T23:03:02Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > then, fine, put 'em in a zoo. do what ever you want. just dont pretend youre doing them a favor! > > mc Zoos _could_ be doing them a lot of favors. I agree, however, on the specific point that confining them is not a “favor”. I don’t believe that means zoos are bad for animals as a whole, however. The St. Louis Zoo, as far as I can tell, is doing amazing things for its animals. The one I remember from my childhood, where they stuck a lion in a chain link cage the size of a dog kennel next to the swing sets in a local park, very much did not. I imagine your take on zoos depends on which type you think is more prevalent. I guarantee you that the St. Louis Zoo prioritizes its animals’ welfare in the utmost. Short of an incident where the animal is threatening a person’s life, I think they prioritize their animals over people. They recently updated their elephant enclosure and most of it isn’t even visible to zoo patrons. It’s huge, with a lake and trees and miles to run and things to play with. I don’t see how you can be against that unless you’re some animal rights activist who equates pets and zoos with slavery and genocide. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/42 "2017-02-08T23:14:45Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Are you against pet ownership? i.m neither for nor agianst pet ownership and zoos. i would be fine if neither existed. what i’m against is people lying to themselves about the reasons that they do things: that they somehow know what is right and best for all things they come in contact with. people put animals in zoos and keep pets because it makes **them** (people) happy, it makes **them** feel good. if people really cared about what makes the animal happy, what makes the animal feel good, they shouldnt do either of these! mc ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/43 "2017-02-08T23:34:23Z")
Lots of anthropomorphism in this thread. If you think animals look at things the way you do, you’re getting it wrong from the start. But, in any case, nearly all zoos these days work to create a hospitable environment for their animals. Cages are eliminated, habitats are made to be more like the wild, and the animals are given plenty of stimulation. Maybe they range more in the wild, but that’s primarily because they have to cover more ground in order to find food and water. If all they need is in one area, they have no problem staying there, even in the wild (and it would make no sense for them to leave). But if you’re talking about cages, you don’t have a clear idea of how modern zoos operate. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/44 "2017-02-08T23:43:56Z")
I don’t like zoos, but I did take my children to see the animals a time or two. And the last time we went, the child in question said he never wanted to go back, because even he could see that the cages make the big cats go kinda crazy. To say nothing of the tethered eagle. The Denver zoo is good for some animals, but not for others. The elephants don’t have nearly the range of a wild elephant, but they’re probably in better shape than circus elephants. Or maybe not; I gather that elephants like to have a job. But it’s kind of sad to see the penguins. I mean, it’s FUN to see penguins, but it’s sad to know that all these little penguins are going to be dead in a month or two, and the zoo will have to go and imprison some new penguins. I’m also really sad about the wolves. Probably it’s true that in the wild, most of those wolves would be dead. As it is, they’re just depressed. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/45 "2017-02-09T00:21:35Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Now that PETA types have driven Barnum and Bailey out of business… Did this actually happen or has the well been poisoned from jump street? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/46 "2017-02-09T00:23:38Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > If you opened the doors to every cage and enclosure at a zoo, how many of the animals do you think would still be there after a week? Does not the fact that most would leave their enclosures prove that given a choice, they prefer freedom? > > And if you think that’s a bad argument, explain why it’s better than your anthropomorphic argument about all animals desiring a life of leisure. > [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Actually, Lester Fisher, director of the Lincoln Park Zoo, told of the story of a chimpanzee who escaped, got lost in the park, then ran to him hooting for protection when Mr Fisher found her later on. The experience was terrifying for her. > > It’s not freedom animals are longing for. Animals do not have a conception of freedom. That’s a human thing. Curiosity is the more likely motive in your scenario. My flippant question wasn’t to suggest that zoos are evil. I think they serve a useful purpose by exposing us to wild animals, which encourages people to support conservation efforts. I also think it is practically impossible to provide an appropriate habitat for some animals such as elephants and polar bears, so the benefits must be weighed against the costs, and the balance might fall too heavily on the cost side for some animals. My issue was with the argument you are using. Arguing that zoos are fine because the animals prefer to be there or are better off is at best anthropomorphizing, and at worst is reminiscent of the more disgusting arguments supporting slavery. Choose another argument. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/47 "2017-02-09T02:01:06Z")
Some animals really are better off in the zoo. Many of the animals in my hometown zoo are rehabbing injuries. Some are even former pets that were confiscated or found deserted. Zoo breeding programs contribute to the survival of some endangered species. The San Diego Zoo pretty much saved the California Condor from extinction. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/48 "2017-02-09T03:50:16Z")
> **[11 Facts About Circus Animal Abuse](https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-circus-animal-abuse)** > > Learn circus animal abuse facts and statistics. Find out more about why animals in the circus experience severe trauma and explore campaigns to help prevent ani... It about damn time Ringling brothers was shut down ! I have a niece that worked in a zoo and she quitted b/c she couldn’t stand seeing the way people visiting the zoo treated the animals ! People were feeding the animals foods that could made them sick, and throwing trash into their cages that was harmful to animals . A lot zoos in cities don’t have enough money to care for the animals properly and they’re more like a jail for the poor animals ! ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/49 "2017-02-09T04:03:04Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > ]Because that is the natural world, my animal loving friends, nasty, brutish, and short. No, it definitely is not. The “natural world” for ancestors is _not_ the natural world for modern humans, especially those of us who grew up in civilization. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/50 "2017-02-09T05:36:12Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > My issue was with the argument you are using. Arguing that zoos are fine because the animals prefer to be there or are better off is at best anthropomorphizing, and at worst is reminiscent of the more disgusting arguments supporting slavery. Choose another argument. this! altho bringing slavery into the argument only muddies it mc ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/51 "2017-02-09T05:59:39Z")
i guess i have to say this again. zoos are not inherently evil! 1. most peolple who support and staff zoos have only the best intentions. 2. zoos and reserves can provide alot of good. ie; exposure to wildlife, rehabilitation, repopulation, education 3. zoos and reserves are not resorts where the animals would pefer to be 4. some zoos and reserves actually physically and mentally harm the animals; maybe not intentionally but they do so none the less. 5. believing that we (humans) know what is best for all creatures, is damaging to humans. if you want to support zoos and reserves, please dont delude yourselves that its better for the animals. and its not better for all people either. there are many of us who would much rather prefer that we learn to live in harmony, side by side, even if that infringes on what humans can do and where they can go mc ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/52 "2017-02-09T08:06:13Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > But it’s kind of sad to see the penguins. I mean, it’s FUN to see penguins, but it’s sad to know that all these little penguins are going to be dead in a month or two, and the zoo will have to go and imprison some new penguins. Cite? Penguins do fine in captivity, most species living 15-20yr +. Most currently in zoo collections are captive-bred - few zoos collect from the wild any more. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/53 "2017-02-10T00:05:36Z")
The San Diego Zoo has quite a few freeloaders: rabbits, squirrels, ducks, some raptors, possums, and other locals who wander in and stay. The San Diego Zoo’s Safari Park (The “Wild Animal Park” to us oldies) also has a freeloading problem: deer often jump the fences (which are pretty darn high!) to get in. It can’t be all that bad, when animals strive to get in. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/54 "2017-02-10T00:27:36Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The San Diego Zoo has quite a few freeloaders: rabbits, squirrels, ducks, some raptors, possums, and other locals who wander in and stay. > > The San Diego Zoo’s Safari Park (The “Wild Animal Park” to us oldies) also has a freeloading problem: deer often jump the fences (which are pretty darn high!) to get in. > > It can’t be all that bad, when animals strive to get in. I have heard the guides there jokingly refer to their “Free Lunch” program. I was at the Safari Park and heard a mule deer had jumped into the cheetah enclosure. I didn’t see it, but was told, “it didn’t hit the ground.”:eek: The keepers were not happy, because the cheetahs are fed a highly specialized diet, and who know what kind of parasites a wild deer has… ---
**Author:** ![justanothermike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@justanothermike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanothermike)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/55 "2017-02-10T03:13:37Z")
I wonder how many people that are opposed to zoos have pets of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/56 "2017-02-10T06:35:48Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > So, I have a question for folks who think it is only right that zoos should disappear. > > If you had a chance to live as your wild ancestors did, no shelter except what you could make, no food except what you could hunt or gather, no clothing, no medical help, constantly fighting off feral bands of fellow human primitives along with other wild animals just as hungry as you, would you do it? Honest answer? Yes. And you wonder if the animals in the zoo would prefer to be out in the wild instead? Open the cage door and see how long before it decides to leave, see if it decides it wants to come back. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/57 "2017-02-10T09:58:49Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Honest answer? > Yes. Well, you can do it. Please, go do it. Without modern medicine, my mother would have died at age three (as her older sister did). My great-aunt died at age 12 of an illness for which children now get routinely vaccinated. Assuming Mom managed to survive, my brother would have died at age three. I’ve got zero interest in living in a world without sanitary napkins, vaccinations, ibuprofen and chocolate (is too part of a modern woman’s first aid kit). Animals aren’t asked if they’d like to live in a zoo; I believe they should receive the best possible care, but closing down the marine mammals exhibit in the Barcelona zoo because “teaching the seals to play nose-ball traumatizes them” is a very high level of stupid. The caretakers had to get special permission to host coreography sessions behind closed doors, as the animals were trying to hold them but the choreographies weren’t complete without the human performers. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/58 "2017-02-10T11:02:25Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Honest answer? > Yes. > > . Okay. That’s one. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/59 "2017-02-10T12:56:19Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Honest answer? > Yes. > > And you wonder if the animals in the zoo would prefer to be out in the wild instead? > Open the cage door and see how long before it decides to leave, see if it decides it wants to come back. People weren’t asked if they wanted to be subjects of the government they’re living under. Are you anti-zoo people all anarchists, too? ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341/60 "2017-02-11T05:51:02Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > People weren’t asked if they wanted to be subjects of the government they’re living under. Are you anti-zoo people all anarchists, too? As a matter of fact, we \*are \*asked, every fourth year. The zoo animals, not so much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-think-zoos-should-be-eliminated-let-me-ask-you-this-question/779341.md?page=4)