I did not say anti zoo
But im not buying the mushroom pipe dream either
Unfortunately, it’s not exactly legal to do so.
Might pull it off in alaska, unless you stumble into someone else’s territory and get shot.
Not quite fair getting shot, i’m only using primitive tools.
Women went a million years with no chocolate, no store bought kotex, and no ibuprofen. Chocolate is after all a fairly modern invention
And they did quite well.
Mind you, they knew where nature stored the ibuprofen, and where nature kept the napkin material.
Also i think that their life style probably made certain female unpleasantness a bit less unpleasant.
I do understand what you are saying about diseases, but also understand that modern civilization has done that, it is kind of a man instigated situation.
Lets go back in time just a wee bit, and let us take a look at some indigenous populations who have had 0 exposure to the euro civilized lot.
Now, we know they were not dropping over like flies, because they would not exist, would have died off.
Many of the things in there area of living, they earned their immunity to, and they did not get exposed to things from 4000 miles away the have never encountered.
That is not to say no one ever got sick, but there was not a cornucopia of plagues waiting to wipe them out in every corner.
When europeans came to america, they brought the natives a walking plague mall, stuff they never were exposed to, and then yes many got sick and died.
It went the other way too, the europeans started getting sick and dying from stuff that did not bother the natives much.
And over in the good old civilized world, we had already been contaminating each other for quite a while cause we go everywhere, whether its a good idea or not.
So if you can stick me in that kind of environment, where i dont have people flying in and out carrying things that i’ve never gained any immunity to, tell me when we leave?
We humans made it a long long time before we learned how to mess everything up, including ourselves, we cause a lot of our own problems, including a lot of diseases.
We aren’t incapable of surviving just fine the other way again, we just have forgotten how to.
We have cats who live a life of luxury, free of fleas, ticks, disease, starvation, thirst, fear, predators, etc. I’m pretty certain that if given a choice to trade places with their feral brethren, they would decline.
That said, they don’t live in cages. I think zoos with natural habitats are fine, animal safaris (like the one in San Diego) are ideal.
I wasn’t asked. If I was I would have said no. Nevertheless, I’m still a subject. You’re saying zoo animals should have more rights than humans?
With a life expectancy in the low 30s… And even a single cavity in one tooth can become lethal… No, people in a state of nature didn’t really do quite well.
(Hell, we aren’t really “doing well” right now. Far too many of us die of causes that are treatable and even curable. Beyond that, a hell of a lot of causes of death are not yet treatable or curable. If the curve of progress can be extrapolated, a century from now, we’ll be doing quite a bit better than we are today.)
I know I’m being unfair in singling out only one item in all you said, but I think it’s emblematic of why I don’t wholly agree with you. We humans have “domesticate” ourselves, and, as always in that process, we’ve given up some freedom in return for some safety.
There are those who oppose this, but, on the whole, civilization depends on it.
Well, pretty darn good, although not yet ideal. The SD Zoo’s polar bear enclosure is light-years ahead of the old one, which was a concrete pit about the size of a small house. The new one is about the size of a small community park.
One of the bears in the old pit went insane. Literally. When she was moved into the new enclosure…she died, almost overnight. He ability to cope with the change was gone.
They are compensating, as much as they can, for the restrictions of the enclosure, with inventive “richness” experiences, such as giving the bears a lovely bunch of salmon…encased in solid ice. The bears have so much fun tearing it apart!
We’re always getting better! The SD Zoo’s gorilla enclosure is so nifty, no few humans would enjoy living there!
I feel differently about large predatory animals. I think orcas should never be kept in captivity & have mixed feelings about polar bears, especially in southern California.
San Diego Zoo Polar Bear Cam
I partly agree, partly disagree. The only defense I’ll give is that the state-of-the-art is getting better. The original Shamu tank was smaller than an Olympic-sized swimming pool. Each subsequent enclosure was very significantly larger. Still not big enough, but…better.
Also, thank you for the link to the polar bear camera! I did not know about that! That’s cool and fun! Instantly pinned to my favorites bar!
(There’s a pun there, but I don’t know how to make it.)
My favorite is the Panda Cam! These guys always look like they’re having fun 
I worked at the San Diego Zoo when I was attending San Diego State, so I have a pretty good idea of how their animals are treated and provided for. Let me tell you how it really is. This is from direct observation and discussion with zoo staff.
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Keepers look on their animals as family. At least with the mammals, I’ve seen keepers sit with their charges and hand feed them. I’ve seen gorillas run to the keeper to hold his hand. Big, strong gorillas have a soft side, I’ve seen it. I’ve seen keepers clean cages to the point that I doubt their own homes are as clean.
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I’ve seen the medical care the animals get, from licensed professionals as well as zoo staff in the hospital (yes, they have a animal hospital at the zoo). I’ve experienced the sorrow for a lost animal. (whether deceased or traded to another zoo) and the joy when a new one arrives.
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I’ve seen the kitchen where their food is prepared. A huge, clean kitchen with bins full of fresh fruit and vegetables. As good or better than you can buy in your store. Feel free to try it if you like, because if it’s not good enough for you, it’s not good enough for the animals.
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I’ve cleaned and scrubbed that zoo (which was my job at the time) to the point that I doubt a Marine Drill Sergeant could find fault with it. When you finish scrubbing, you start over.
I entered the cage of a baby lion whose mother had rejected him, many, many times. I played with him from the time he was 3 weeks old until he was ready to join the others. Positive interaction with the animals is encouraged. Abuse is in no way tolerated.
My time working at San Diego’s zoo taught me that those employee are 100% professional and very concerned about the welfare of their animals. I’m sure there are bad zoos but I’ll bet everything I have that most zoos are no different that the San Diego Zoo. It was a great job for a guy in college. Great and caring people work there.
Morgenstern: Thank you and bless you!
I was once at the SD zoo, and observed a freeloader rabbit, scurrying through the bushes. I got a close look at him, and his eyes were ringed with parasites (ticks or fleas, I don’t know.) That is absolutely impossible for the zoo animals.
The state of nature is not a nice place.
I used to live out in the countryside, and I’ve seen what happens when people, in their hellish ignorance, turn dogs loose, “To let them go back to their natural environment.”
Coyotes eat 'em.
If animals were capable of adding up the pros and cons, I’m betting they’d vote for food, safety, and medical care…just as we have.
Zoos are the best hope at this point for many endangered animals. PETA is a seriously flawed organization people by well intentioned morons.
Having Zoos also is a large help in making kids aware of animals and their plights around the world of over hunting and habitat loss.
Yes indeed! And with a pretty good track record of bringing species back from the brink. The California condor population was down to only 22. As of 2013, there were over 400.
The arabian oryx was extinct in the wild, and only existed in zoos. Enough were bred to release back to the wild, as well as a large zoo population.
Lots of other success stories. And sad ones, too, such as the almost-sure loss of the northern white rhino.
since the san diego zoo is getting shoutouts, let me add my voice to the chorus. i lived in SD for 12 years and worked, literally, right next door to the zoo for 4 yrs.
one afternoon as i was walking to my car i saw a cheetah (a fucking cheetah!). it was not ten feet from me, and i have to admit that it was one of the coolest things i’ve ever seen; a wild jungle animal less than 3 steps away! it took me a few seconds before i even noticed the human standing right behind it. and that the cheetah was on a leash, and behind them was another young lady with a large dog on a leash. i asked the cheetah handler what was up and she explained that she was habituating this adolescent to the leash by taking it on walks around the grounds. this was necessary as several times a day this animal or others like it were brought into an area for close up observation by, and education for, the zoo attendees. and i asked what the dog was for, and the other woman said “in case something goes wrong, the dog is trained to attack the cat to distract it from any humans nearby”
during my years in SD, i met many wildlife workers from the zoo, all of them conscientious, highly trained, and cared for their animals almost as family. and all of them told me that about 75% of their jobs was getting the animals ready for the public.
people dont pay to go to the zoo to hear about the conservation efforts going on. they dont pay to hear about the success of condor repopulation. they pay to see the animals, end of sentence. its a freak show pure and simple.
i have stipulated many times in this thread that good can come from humans trying to take care of animals. but we cannot forget that zoos exist for one and only one reason; so that people can gawk at animals.
it’s for us, not them
mc
As a zoo nut, and a San Diegan…allow me to praise the Phoenix Zoo, which does a lot of things really, really well. I’ve visited there three times, and would love to go again.
The Los Angeles Zoo is good, but, to be honest, should be better. For ten times the city, shouldn’t they have ten times the zoo? (Or do things scale that way?) Anyway, a peachy place to visit.
The only other big city zoo I’ve been to was Pittsburgh’s, and that, too, was a joy. For me, the biggest surprise was the enormous aquarium at the top of the hill.
(For southern Californians, the Santa Ana Zoo is small, but very nice. They make the most of their limited real estate. I recommend a visit. The Orange County Zoo is tiny. In fact, it’s so small – how small is it, Johnny? – they don’t even have restrooms! You have to go back outside into the surrounding park to find a bathroom.)