# People Who Were Wronged Terribly And Had To Pay (Financially) For It **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498 "2016-08-01T21:13:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/21 "2016-08-03T21:34:11Z")
[Steven A. Pagones](http://www.nycourts.gov/press/old_keep/brawley.htm)suffered greatly at the hands of that lying bitch Tawana Brawley ---
**Author:** ![Yarster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@Yarster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yarster)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/22 "2016-08-03T22:15:50Z")
Your best bet is going to be the things folks have already suggested, which are usually of the “law enforcement arrests the person and accuses them of a crime in court, followed by the person having their reputation destroyed and bank account drained just getting back to zero, and often after a lengthy stay in jail/prison before being exonerated” Any search of civil asset forfeiture should yield you some good hits as well, though I know John Oliver did a whole segment on this and Cracked may have discussed it as well. Basically, the cops seize your property or cash on the basis it _ **may** _ be related to the commission of a crime, and you have to fight to get it back. Here’s the Wikipedia article on it. [Civil forfeiture in the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States). ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/23 "2016-08-03T23:42:28Z")
I’d say a huge percentage of divorced women fall into this category too. Not as much nowadays, but, say, 40 or more years ago? Ooooooh, yeah. (grabs flameproof suit) ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/24 "2016-08-04T13:45:38Z")
Here’s a good example: [Leo Lech](http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/03/homeowner-sues-greenwood-village-swat/). TLDR: a robbery suspect - someone Lech didn’t know from Adam - barricaded himself in Lech’s home. The SWAT team literally blew it to smithereens, then told Lech “fuck you” when he asked for compensation. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/25 "2016-08-04T14:21:57Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Here’s a good example: [Leo Lech](http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/03/homeowner-sues-greenwood-village-swat/). TLDR: a robbery suspect - someone Lech didn’t know from Adam - barricaded himself in Lech’s home. The SWAT team literally blew it to smithereens, then told Lech “fuck you” when he asked for compensation. That doesn’t say he was out of pocket at all. They offered him money to cover what the insurance didn’t. Is there more information that says he had to pay? Not his fault and it was a bad situation but was there more information to show this fits the OP? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/26 "2016-08-04T14:25:03Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Here’s a good example: [Leo Lech](http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/03/homeowner-sues-greenwood-village-swat/). TLDR: a robbery suspect - someone Lech didn’t know from Adam - barricaded himself in Lech’s home. The SWAT team literally blew it to smithereens, then told Lech “fuck you” when he asked for compensation. > [@Loach](#): > > That doesn’t say he was out of pocket at all. They offered him money to cover what the insurance didn’t. Is there more information that says he had to pay? Not his fault and it was a bad situation but was there more information to show this fits the OP? Loach is right. **HeyHomie** , you’ve missed a critical premise: it has to go beyond “we screw you up, you eat it.” It has to be “we screw you up and bill you for the privilege.” A hypothetical on-topic rendition of Leo Lech’s case would be “robbery suspect barricades himself in Lech’s home. SWAT team literally blew it to smithereens, and then **billed Lech for the ammunition and the cost of the SWAT response.** ” A classic canonical “simplest form” of this phenomenon: [the bullet fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_fee), most poignantly in the case of execution for political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/27 "2016-08-04T16:04:46Z")
> [@Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](#): > > Adding to the tales of preschool witchhunts already mentioned here, I suggest a real witchhunt, namely, the one that took place in Salem, Massachusetts in 1692. > > 19 people were hanged and one was pressed to death. The families of all of the victims were billed for the prisoners’ board and lodging in the jail. There were also several people who were accused but had not been brought to trial before the hysteria collapsed. They, too, were billed for their jail confinement. Because the jailers refused to let them free until their bills had been settled, several of them languished in cells for years after the trials even though their innocence was undoubted. Oddly , the only person who was guilty was Tituba, who confessed and was put in jail, not executed. Ad she was only guilty of pretending to be a real witch, but of course that was a crime anyway (and still is in some areas). ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/28 "2016-08-04T18:46:05Z")
Hmm…my neighbor went in for a tubal ligation and some other small procedure. Surgeon perforated her colon before she ever got to either procedure. She was sent to the hospital, had to have additional surgery and 10 days hospitalization. The first surgeon came in during the bowel resection and finished the first procedure (even though she didn’t have permission to operate within that hospital), but never did the tubal. My neighbor ended up with a bill from the first surgeon for her botched surgery. Plus all the expenses for the emergency surgery and hospitalization. StG ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/29 "2016-08-04T20:01:17Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > Hmm…my neighbor went in for a tubal ligation and some other small procedure. Surgeon perforated her colon before she ever got to either procedure. She was sent to the hospital, had to have additional surgery and 10 days hospitalization. The first surgeon came in during the bowel resection and finished the first procedure (even though she didn’t have permission to operate within that hospital), but never did the tubal. My neighbor ended up with a bill from the first surgeon for her botched surgery. Plus all the expenses for the emergency surgery and hospitalization. > > StG The hospital (and surgeon) who treated her bowel perforation did not wrong your friend; they did her a service and deserve their fees. The surgeon who did the “other small procedure” is also justified in submitting a bill, although that is some chutzpah. Of course your friend would seem to be quite justified in pursuing a lawsuit, which will, of course, not “rewind the clock” or even “make her whole” in the way she’d like, but should cover removing salt from the wound, at least. Operating in a venue without privileges will not help the defense of the case. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/30 "2016-08-04T21:09:03Z")
**BBB** - My neighbor has nothing but good things to say about the surgeon and hospital who treated the bowel perf. But she felt the insurance of the surgeon who botched the first surgery should have covered her subsequent medical costs. Instead, the botching surgeon billed her for doing a procedure that apparently isn’t even noted in the surgical notes, she was just told that it was done while she was on the table. Unfortunately she’s had complications from that perf for the last year. She has Crohn’s and this has apparently caused some real issues, as she’d already had 1/4 of her bowel removed because of the Crohn’s. StG ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/31 "2016-08-04T21:16:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oddly , the only person who was guilty was Tituba, who confessed and was put in jail, not executed. Ad she was only guilty of pretending to be a real witch, but of course that was a crime anyway (and still is in some areas). It still is in Canada! > [@](#): > > Pretending to practise witchcraft, etc. > > 365 Every one who fraudulently > > (a) pretends to exercise or to use any kind of witchcraft, sorcery, enchantment or conjuration, > (b) undertakes, for a consideration, to tell fortunes, or > (c) pretends from his skill in or knowledge of an occult or crafty science to discover where or in what manner anything that is supposed to have been stolen or lost may be found, > is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. Key word here is “fraudulently”. Real witches aren’t guilty! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/32 "2016-08-04T21:18:30Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It still is in Canada! > > Key word here is “fraudulently”. Real witches aren’t guilty! IMHO, if you put a curse on someone or sell someone a poison potion, then you are fair game as a “witch”. People have died from curses under the power of suggestion. Wiccans are another matter, that’s a religion. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/33 "2016-08-04T21:24:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > IMHO, if you put a curse on someone or sell someone a poison potion, then you are fair game as a “witch”. People have died from curses under the power of suggestion. > > Wiccans are another matter, that’s a religion. Certainly if you give someone a poison, that would be a crime whether you are a witch or not. I dunno, under our (Canadian) Criminal Code, how putting a hex on someone using purely witchy powers - where the hex actually works - would be charged. The drafters of the Code probably assumed, as a matter of course, that all witchy powers to hex someone were, in fact, fraudulent. So it is treated as basically a species of fraud. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/34 "2016-08-04T21:29:25Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I dunno, under our (Canadian) Criminal Code, how putting a hex on someone using purely witchy powers - where the hex actually works - would be charged. > > The drafters of the Code probably assumed, as a matter of course, that all witchy powers to hex someone were, in fact, fraudulent. So it is treated as basically a species of fraud. So, I agree. Whether or not magic works, the act of trying to “hex” someone is now and should be a crime. And in those days it was a Capital crime… but so was pick-pocketing in some cases. Yes, we have grown past Capital punishment for minor crimes, but that doesn’t mean those still aren’t crimes. So, punishing “witchcraft” as a crime is not necessarily ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/35 "2016-08-04T21:32:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, I agree. Whether or not magic works, the act of trying to “hex” someone is now and should be a crime. And in those days it was a Capital crime… but so was pick-pocketing in some cases. Yes, we have grown past Capital punishment for minor crimes, but that doesn’t mean those still aren’t crimes. So, punishing “witchcraft” as a crime is not necessarily ignorant. Good point. Whether it works or not, it is malevolent; if it doesn’t work (and you are doing it on behalf of someone else, presumably for money), it is fraudulent. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/36 "2016-08-05T02:39:23Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > On the subject of warrantless ass searches by the border patrol…I was trying to find out when they were allowed to execute searches without a hint of probable cause. Including now electronic devices. > > But “Obama and the border patrol” doesnt exactly return any hits of him expanding their powers. That’s because he didn’t. The Border Patrol has a huge amount of authority to do searches within 100 miles of the border. [The ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/constitution-100-mile-border-zone) had some details and a depressing map. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/37 "2016-08-05T12:14:12Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > It has to be “we screw you up and bill you for the privilege.” Or not screw you… PA has a weird ass law that any child conceived in a marriage is presumed to be that of the husband’s. Wife has an affair, gets knocked up & has the baby; couple divorce yet the husband is on the hook for child support even though he is [Maury Povich voice] not the father [/MPV] ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/38 "2016-08-05T17:45:04Z")
Surprised no one’s mentioned the [West Memphis 3.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three) They were railroaded for the murders of two young boys, and found guilty based on the most specious evidence as well as testimony from so-called “experts” in Satanism and other bullshit. After nearly 20 years of appeals and support from high-profile celebrities, their only option given was to enter an “Alford Plea” (basically a guilty plea w/o admitting actual guilt) in exchange for their release. Because they technically plead guilty, none of them can sue the state of Arkansas for wrongful imprisonment. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mr.Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/39 "2016-08-06T00:31:49Z")
How about this case: > **[Concealed Carry Insurance - Legal Defense for Self Defense - USLawShield](https://www.uslawshield.com)** > > Protect yourself with concealed carry insurance. Stay on the right side of the law. Be a responsible CCW gun owner. The parents of one of the victims of the Aurora, CO mass shooting sued several companies for selling guns, ammunition and body armor to the killer. The lawsuit was not only thrown out, but the parents have been ordered to pay the attorney’s fees and court costs for the companies they were suing. Apparently their costs may run to over $200,000. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498/40 "2016-08-06T03:58:10Z")
> [@Mr.Bill](#): > > How about this case: > > [Legal Defense for Self Defense - USLawShield](https://www.uslawshield.com/judge-orders-aurora-victims-family-to-pay-for-suing-gun-dealers/) > > The parents of one of the victims of the Aurora, CO mass shooting sued several companies for selling guns, ammunition and body armor to the killer. The lawsuit was not only thrown out, but the parents have been ordered to pay the attorney’s fees and court costs for the companies they were suing. > > Apparently their costs may run to over $200,000. That’s well deserved. They certainly werent wronged, they choose to file a bogus suit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-were-wronged-terribly-and-had-to-pay-financially-for-it/761498.md?page=3)