# “People with diabetes shouldn’t inject insulin publicly!” **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 10, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240 "2005-05-10T16:45:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/101 "2005-05-10T21:14:09Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Yes, I do, actually. You have a plate, put your used utensils on that, which will be washed thoroughly before someone else is expected to come in contact with it, other than clearing it off the table. > > And I saw **Qadgop** ’s post. I’m skeptical that someone can puncture their skin in an extremely public place, inches from where people are _eating_, and there’s absolutely no risk of contamination. The needle is very small in diameter and very short. The potential of blood spray is miniscule. I’d be more worried about the contamination your food had to deal with in the kitchen than a diner sitting away from you injecting their insulin. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/102 "2005-05-10T21:17:20Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And now your “meeting” several that don’t. > > I have a friend who was insulin diabetic and was always shocked that anyone expected her to inject herself in the same place people take a shit. That may be, but most people do it in the restroom. ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/103 "2005-05-10T21:27:46Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > And I saw **Qadgop** ’s post. I’m skeptical that someone can puncture their skin in an extremely public place, inches from where people are _eating_, and there’s absolutely no risk of contamination. Dunno about you, but every time I have gone to the Red Cross to donate platelets, I was poked in the finger with a rather large lancet (rather than those my diabetic acquaintances use with those nifty cool new readers!). Every time, the nurse had to press on my fingertip to get the blood out. Now - that said - I remember, a few years ago, I managed to give myself a rather deep puncture with a fondue fork at a restaurant (loooong story, quite accidental). It bled. Profusely. Unless my blood was leaping from my hand onto other people’s tables, I think no one actually ran the risk of being contaminated. In fact, the fondue fork survived, as did the paper napkin I reached for (and threw out in the ladies’ room once I had cleaned up the wound), and no one had been splashed by blood, or come in contact with it at all. The staff was kind enough to replace the malfunctionning fork (again, long story, the handle was the culprit) and throw out the one which had unfortunately stabbed me. Oh - and my pal Dave, who happened to be there the night the fondue fork tried to kill me - he has frequent, sudden-onset nosebleeds. He, too, has yet to contaminate someone. And we’re talking TOTAL FAUCET here. Soooo… all in all, I don’t think that a tiny little pin prick that draws a VERY tiny amount of blood in a reader that never even comes in contact with the table will be much of a contamination problem, do you? I mean, hell, I’m more worried about the snotty-nosed infant I mentionned earlier who may well spew his food onto my lap when I least expect it. For all I know, he has some nasty viral infection he’s passing on to me! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/104 "2005-05-10T21:27:53Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > My hat’s off to you. > > I gave two friend’s cats their injections while they were still around. The friends had issues with needles. > > It takes a real love and committment to do that for a cat, at least with the disposable way too many view pets. That’s very kind, although, in the interest of full disclosure, i should note that my wife had this cat before we met, and that the love and commitment to it is more hers than it is mine. Don’t get me wrong, i love cats, and i love this one, and i give the cat its injections almost as frequently as my wife does. When she goes away, i make sure that i’m always home in time to give the cat its injections, even if that sometimes means cutting short an evening out. At the same time, though, it can be something of a pain in the ass when we need to go away together. We generally can’t just ask a friend to look after it, as the extra burden of giving two injections a day is more than most people are willing to bear, for reasons of convenience and, in some cases, squeamishness or fear. This means boarding the cat with the vet, adding about $15 a day to any trip we take. Also, even when a cat’s diabetes is controlled, they tend to be less healthy than other cats. Our kitty is about 14 years old, which i believe is a pretty advanced age for a diabetic cat, and she’s had a bunch of health problems over the past year or so that have put a sizeable dent into a not-very-large budget. In some ways, it will be something of a relief when she does go, although my wife will be inconsolable for a little while after that happens. I’ve always loved animals, but i have a rather pragmatic view about their death, figuring that i’m likely to outlast just about any pet i’m going to have, and i’ve never gotten especially emotional when they die. But, even with my rather pragmatic view, i do agree completely that pets shouldn’t simply be treated as disposable objects. If you take one on, you have some responsibility to take care of it, even when that starts to cause some inconvenience. I think i would draw the line, however, at spending so much money that it actually put our own financial security at risk. [end hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/105 "2005-05-10T22:00:53Z")
Wow, two ways to go on this thread. First, I’ve been insulin dependent diabetic for 24 years. I wrote an SDMB Staff Report on needles too, so I’ve demonstrated knowledge of them. I take my shot at the table, and test. It is very possible to do it subtly and to hide - I put a water glass in front of me, or do the test in my lap. If I give a shot, I turn to the side to hide it, or do it close to the border of the table. It’s just not that hard. Typically it’s not uncommon for my dinner guests to be unaware I’ve just tested my blood sugar and given a shot. Doing this in the bathroom is much less desireable for two reasons. First, people bitch almost as much in there - on a couple of occasions I’ve even had someone run out to tell the staff to “call the police” because “someone’s doing DRUGS in there!”, which leads to untold hilarity. If people are bothered in the restaurant, they’ll be bothered in the restroom, and you’ll get a few “Ewwww!”'s in there. Oh, do it in the stall? Maybe - most restaurant toilet stalls are often so filthy I don’t even want to enter them, let alone sit there and make two wounds in myself. Many times all the stalls are occupied, and you stand there and wait…and smell…and wait…and hear the sounds…yup, don’t like spending any unnecessary time there. On the other side of the coin, diabetics should be considerate of dinner guests and at least attempt to hide what they are doing at the table, as I described above. I also do ask guests if they mind, and if they do I just go to the toilets. Simple. It’s common courtesy. I’ve seen rude diabetics practically do a stand-up routine over their shot-taking, and that’s just not cool. It’s also common courtesy to not bitch about someone jabbing a miniscule needle into themselves the next table over if they’re making an attempt to be subtle about it. Thinking on the OP - I wonder, knowing more than a little bit about diabetes and its management, how a simple few minute delay in a shot is measureable by any medical means, especially an H1Ac. The meters aren’t even that accurate or repeatable - just try using one 20 times in 30 minutes and see. And we’re talking, even with Humalog, about a medicine with a total duration measured in 2-3 hours, which has a decent variation in absorption and uptake depending on an enormous array of factors, from what the temperature is in the restaurant to what activity level the person had earlier that day. Check out the 1-sigma range from insulin uptake and you may be surprised - it’s not laser-like precision. Set aside the whole “different foods digesting at different rates” thing, which is a HUGE variable. If a doctor is telling the OP that a few minutes makes a difference in the A1c, quite frankly, I will not say they are wrong, not being a doctor, but I think a second opinion and some serious research into exactly what the A1c measures and what impacts insulin uptake and action is in order. Not because I want to be contrary to the OP, but I think that they may be exerting an unneeded level of over-control which could cause greater anxiety in the child who already has enough knowing that they have a fatal illness. So what’s the summary? - Diabetics should use some common sense and be polite and subtle when testing and taking medication. - People nearby should recognize an attempt to be polite, look away if it bothers them, and thank their good luck that they don’t have diabetes. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/106 "2005-05-10T22:01:01Z")
Wow, what a bunch of ignorant dumbfucks. Look people, mind your fucking business, and maybe even learn a bit about diabetes so you know something about what you speak. Many of you ought to be embarassed for your replies in this thread. HtB, keep that kid healthy, and fuck what certain phobics and small-minded whiners have said here today-because they’re wrong, and bathrooms are just fucking funky! I can’t imagine injecting myself in a public ::gag:: restroom, which may or may not have been cleaned in the last 24 hrs to 2 weeks and may or may not have had bleach used in it at all. Sam ---
**Author:** ![beckwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@beckwall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckwall)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/107 "2005-05-10T22:19:27Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > It’s frustrating to get branded as some sort of diabetes-phobe based on absolutely no evidence. So how’s it feel to be disclosed as an idiot with plenty of evidence, fuckwad? If something bothers you, don’t do it or watch it when others do it. End of story. Inferring that someone with diabetes is too sick to dine out because they need a routine injection is beyond stupidity. It’s moronic and uninformed. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/108 "2005-05-10T22:27:05Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > It’s frustrating to get branded as some sort of diabetes-phobe based on absolutely no evidence. Honestly, it’s not “Diabetes-phobe” that I get as a vibe off of your position on this matter. It’s more like…“flaming prick-fuck”. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/109 "2005-05-10T22:28:16Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > Thinking on the OP - I wonder, knowing more than a little bit about diabetes and its management, how a simple few minute delay in a shot is measureable by any medical means, especially an H1Ac. The meters aren’t even that accurate or repeatable - just try using one 20 times in 30 minutes and see. And we’re talking, even with Humalog, about a medicine with a total duration measured in 2-3 hours, which has a decent variation in absorption and uptake depending on an enormous array of factors, from what the temperature is in the restaurant to what activity level the person had earlier that day. Check out the 1-sigma range from insulin uptake and you may be surprised - it’s not laser-like precision. Set aside the whole “different foods digesting at different rates” thing, which is a HUGE variable. Just to quote myself in clarification, but I never intended to say that a minute’s difference would show up in his H1Ac’s. I was mirroring the wording used by someone who asked why we didn’t give the Humalog injection moments before my son eats. > [@me](#): > > … but from my understanding, from the moment he starts eating, he starts digesting the food and breaking it down. His body produces none of the insulin that helps you and I move sugars from the bloodstream into his cells. He therefore begins to have an increase in the amount of sugars that remain in the blood. These, particularly coursing through the tinier blood vessels, damage them and lead to neuropathy and retinopathy, and all the other ‘opathies that you may have heard are associated with diabetes. Humalog peaks in its effectiveness in 90 minutes, so it is fairly short acting, but still has some delay in moving sugars into the cells where they are needed. For the period of time that we were being lax (delaying giving him his insulin by 15 to 30 minutes sometimes) we saw his A1C reading go up. > > Apart from that, we have to make two calculations to determine the amount of insulin to give him. One based on his pre-meal blood sugar level, and another based on the number of carbohydrates he had. This is far easier to determine while sitting at the table, with all the reminders of how much of each type of food that he ate remaining on the table. We could write all of this down so that we could do it later so that you don’t have a moment of discomfort, but I don’t think we’ll risk the potential increase in errors that we might make by adding those steps just for your nebbiness. So there are several factors that make it necessary to give his insulin shot shortly after he eats. I never said that we couldn’t take a minute to go to the bathroom to do it. I said that we wouldn’t. What we can’t take is 15 to 30 minutes, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/110 "2005-05-10T22:33:46Z")
Hey, easy on **Sauron** , you two. He made a poor comment and admitted to it, and apologized. No need to crucify him again for that. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/111 "2005-05-10T22:36:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, you learn something every day. > But i was not aware that insulin injections were so time-dependent. My wife and i have a diabetic cat that needs insulin injections twice a day, and the vet has always told us to just give two injection twelve hours apart, with no instructions about injections close to meal times or anything like that. I guess i sort of just assumed that it was the same for people. But apparently giving the injection close to eating is very important. Well, the catch is that generally speaking, most owners tend to feed their cats an extremely regimented diet, by human standards. By that, I mean that a cat generally gets the same amount, of the same food, at pretty much the same time. That makes it a lot easier to control diabetes. People, on the other hand, decide that they want to have ice cream instead of mashed potatoes, or eat a little too much of something, eat an hour too late, etc… This makes keeping the blood sugar levels right a lot harder. Have you ever seen an insulin dependent diabetic’s dietary regimen? It’s pretty damn strict. My grandmother was insulin-dependent type II diabetic for something like 30 years- she was from the old school, and was religious about eating right, eating at the right times, and checking her blood sugar levels. That’s probably why she lived to be 82, in spite of being diabetic since sometime in the late 1960’s, and smoking until about 1985. (she quit cold turkey too.) She didn’t do her injections at the dinner table, but she gave them to herself in the ass/hip too. \*\* Hentor’s \*\* son gets his in his arm- how obvious would that be? Plus, there are blood sugar monitors that don’t require the lancet these days. My dad has one. I’m not sure how it works, but it doesn’t hurt, doesn’t cause any bleeding and is really quick. Personally, I’d much rather have a diabetic injecting insulin in the booth with me than have to hear some snot-nosed kid scream bloody murder and/or throw food around the restaraunt, as is so common nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/112 "2005-05-10T22:55:57Z")
> [@lno](#): > > Hey, easy on **Sauron** , you two. He made a poor comment and admitted to it, and apologized. No need to crucify him again for that. It wasn’t crucifixion, it was simply my opinion on what he said. Writing off people’s reactions as if they think he’s a blank-phobe is a convenient way of saying that it is we who are over-reacting and not he who is behaving badly. He was being a jerk, and I’m glad he has apologized for it, it makes him a better person for it. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/113 "2005-05-10T22:57:52Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > That may be, but most people do it in the restroom. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/114 "2005-05-10T23:04:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Cite? You are not, by any chance, holding your breath are you? ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/115 "2005-05-10T23:21:57Z")
> [@treis](#): > > 😕 Tables in the middle of resturants are? Every resturant I have been to they just wiped down the table whereas every bathroom I have been in they use products with bleach and such to kill germs. > . Tables are wiped down with a sanatizing solution. The health dept. comes in, the first thing they check is the sanibucket to make sure it has the right levels of everything. Yes the bathroom is hit with bleach or something once or twice a day…maybe…which keeps it sanitary until the first time some one flushes and all bets are off. I wouldnt let anyone I cared about give themselves an injection in my coffee shops bathroom, and we do try to keep it clean(we have a sanitizing company and everything). ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/116 "2005-05-10T23:52:52Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Just to quote myself in clarification, but I never intended to say that a minute’s difference would show up in his H1Ac’s. I was mirroring the wording used by someone who asked why we didn’t give the Humalog injection moments before my son eats. > > So there are several factors that make it necessary to give his insulin shot shortly after he eats. I never said that we couldn’t take a minute to go to the bathroom to do it. I said that we wouldn’t. What we can’t take is 15 to 30 minutes, apparently. I apologize. When you posted this: > [@](#): > > It is very time dependent. As I explained, we have to do it moments AFTER he eats. We have found that even relatively brief delays result in increases in his A1C readings (a more global indicator of the degree of control that we are achieving, measured at his quarterly visits to the hospital). It seemed like you were saying it was very highly time-dependent. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/117 "2005-05-10T23:55:52Z")
> [@griffen2](#): > > Knowing this, as I’m sure you do, it’s your responsibility as a considerate diner to take your son to the bathroom. Yeah, because that’s a nice, clean, hygienic place to give shots! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/118 "2005-05-11T00:21:48Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Yes, I do, actually. You have a plate, put your used utensils on that, which will be washed thoroughly before someone else is expected to come in contact with it, other than clearing it off the table. > > And I saw **Qadgop** ’s post. I’m skeptical that someone can puncture their skin in an extremely public place, inches from where people are _eating_, and there’s absolutely no risk of contamination. Honey, I’ve seen my grandmother test her blood sugar at the kitchen table without even realizing what she was doing. She takes her testing stick (or whatever you call it), jabs her finger tip really quick, and then finishes. I see her do it all the time now. It’s NO BIG DEAL. Hell, I like to do hand embroidery and sewing. I’ve pricked myself with needles and pins (I’m something of a klutz), and I don’t think I’ve ever drawn blood. And if I did, it was maybe a tiny teeny widdle itty-bitty ickle speck-certainly there were no droplets flying everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/119 "2005-05-11T00:48:05Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > I apologize. When you posted this: > > It seemed like you were saying it was very highly time-dependent. Well, it is very time-dependent, in the sense that he has to have it as soon as possible, and we have observed negative effects if we dally by up to half an hour on an occasional basis. Other than that, the misconception is entirely my fault. On the other hand, I can only imagine the sooner = the better, and with an onset of 3 years of age, I’m going to take any “advantage” I can. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240/120 "2005-05-11T00:50:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Hell, I like to do hand embroidery and sewing. I’ve pricked myself with needles and pins (I’m something of a klutz), and I don’t think I’ve ever drawn blood. And if I did, it was maybe a tiny teeny widdle itty-bitty ickle speck-certainly there were no droplets flying everywhere. This is true, as regards the lancet we use for testing. Often times, we have to “milk” his finger to get a drop. Even when we don’t do so, you couldn’t ever really call the blood “free-flowing.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-diabetes-shouldn-t-inject-insulin-publicly/303240.md?page=7)