# People with multiple small children but no dog go to a dog park .... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062 "2014-04-14T01:44:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/61 "2014-04-14T20:12:53Z")
> [@Pai325](#): > > I agree with this. She has the right to be there, but it’s a jerkish thing to do to her kids and the dogs. Are they going to chase the dogs to try to play? Sooner or later one of her kids will grab one and yank on something, and then there wil be trouble. > > Take the kids to a playground. And it will be the dogs/dogs’ owners who will be held at fault. I don’t take my dog to dog parks for this reason, among others. My dog doesn’t like kids either, so I make sure I don’t take her any place where there are pack of wild children roaming around. That said, it seems lazy to me: take your kids to a dog park instead of taking on the responsibility for getting a dog. I don’t think much of it, but I’m well aware that, in our society (well, all of them really) people come before dogs. So my dog and I will continue to go to places like the cemetery where she can run around (leashed – I never let her off leash) freely without being stalked by little kids who don’t understand doggy body language. (If I see that a funeral is set up, we avoid that part of the cemetery. Again, living humans come before dogs. But most of the time, the cemetery is the perfect place to walk the dog.) ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/62 "2014-04-14T20:34:42Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > It’s a shame that the dog owner didn’t take a moment and maybe educate the clueless mom. Teaching children how to safely introduce themselves to a strange dog is something that would benefit all dog owners. Didn’t the dog owner say their dog wasn’t good with kids? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/63 "2014-04-14T20:35:36Z")
I think some people may not really know what a “dog run” is. I’d never seen one before I moved here. They can be really chaotic places. Lots of dust flying. Lots of dogs running all over the place. Sometimes owners are out there with them, throwing balls and whatnot. Other times, owners are sitting over on the benches, not paying attention. I can’t imagine letting one small child loose in one, let alone THREE. That means that when you’re rushing to the aide of Toddler 1 when she gets knocked over by the frisky Golden Retriever, you aren’t paying attention to Toddler 2, who is one tail-pull away from being nipped by a grouchy poodle or Toddler 3, who over in the corner making mud pies with some brown squishy stuff he just found. I try not to judge parents, but sorry, that’s just plain stupidity right there. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/64 "2014-04-14T21:18:21Z")
There is a good point here that dog parks vary. The image I have in my head are the little urban dog corners we have around here, that offer benches, shade and a place to poop, but aren’t any place that’s going to get too wild. > [@Dogzilla](#): > > That said, it seems lazy to me: take your kids to a dog park instead of taking on the responsibility for getting a dog. Lazy? We live three people to a one bedroom apartment. It’s not lazy, it’s responsible. I take my little bug to PetSmart to look at the animals (from a controlled distance) and that’s as close to having a pet as we can responsibly get at this time. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/65 "2014-04-14T21:22:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Lots of dust flying. And when I say dust, I mean it. A perpetual cloud of it hangs in the air above the dog run just around the corner from me. It’s a popular spot. I never see little kids hanging out there. Just lots doggies and their owners. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/66 "2014-04-14T21:29:33Z")
I’m gonna side with dog guy on this one. Who knows what kind of disgusting parasites and diseases your nasty rugrats have. Nowadays, we don’t even know if your kids had all their shots. Unless they’re leashed, they might try to bite me or my dog too. Also, one of the rules at my dog park is “All dogs must be under voice command at all times.” How many kids under 5 can do that? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/67 "2014-04-14T21:29:54Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > There is a good point here that dog parks vary. The image I have in my head are the little urban dog corners we have around here, that offer benches, shade and a place to poop, but aren’t any place that’s going to get too wild. > > Lazy? We live three people to a one bedroom apartment. It’s not lazy, it’s responsible. I take my little bug to PetSmart to look at the animals (from a controlled distance) and that’s as close to having a pet as we can responsibly get at this time. But would you call that a dog park? If the OP meant an area of a park that dogs often go in, why would he have called it a dog park? Why would any dog owner think they could tell a parent to get out of a general use park? It’d be a complete non-debate, with the dog owner being wrong. And calling it a dog park would be misleading. OP, could you please clarify? ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/68 "2014-04-14T21:39:08Z")
I think that both parties are probably at least slightly mentally unstable. Mom shouldn’t have been bringing three under-fives to a dog park by herself, and the dog owner shouldn’t have brought a dog that is unstable around children to a public place where children could easily be hurt. Legally I agree with everyone else here - the mother is in the right, but still remarkably weird. To be honest, I’m wary of dog parks in general, as my dog has been harmed by aggressive dogs there in the past, so to me, treating it like a playground is . . . well, not the greatest idea. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/69 "2014-04-14T21:40:17Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > It seems like half the people in this thread have no idea what a “dog park” is. > > **It’s an area that’s been specifically fenced off so that dogs can run around off-leash and play with each other.** Letting your little kids play in the dog park may be technically legal, but it’s dangerous and rude as hell. It’s like letting your little kids play in the skate park – you’re interfering with the reason the park exists in the first place (giving skateboarders a place to skate where they won’t bother other people) and you’re setting them up for injury when someone skates over them. > > My dog is incredibly friendly and loves to play with people. He’s so friendly that if you come up to say hello there’s a good chance he’ll jump on you. When I walk him I keep him on a tight leash. If he meets a little kid in the street I hold his harness to keep him under control so he doesn’t knock them over. What am I supposed to do if you bring your little kid to the dog park? Run over and leash him? The whole reason we’re there is so he can play off leash. That’s why the dog park exists in the first place. This is about it. I have been clipped pretty hard by dogs running full blast at the dog park, not sure how that would have ended if I was a 3 yr old. That said, a dog that “doesn’t like kids” is not one that should be at the off leash park, imho. The dog is just as likely to “not like puppies/small dogs”. ---
**Author:** ![Yarster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@Yarster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yarster)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/70 "2014-04-14T21:59:45Z")
My own opinion is that both parties share 50% of the blame on this. The guy with a dog that doesn’t do well with kids shouldn’t bring his dog there, and the woman shouldn’t bring kids to an area where they may be smashed into at high speed or bitten if they harrass an unknown dog. Here in San Diego we have a few dog beaches and I see this same type of issue a lot. The Mom with the young child wearing shorts and no shoes (and currently non-soaked clothes) is in water just a few inches deep, and a pack of dogs playing with each other, or a dog chasing a ball, hauls ass and plows into the kid, knocking them into the water resulting in wet clothes, a crying child, and an outraged mother. In this case though, the dog owner apologizes and the Mom leaves in a huff. Thankfully, it is a self correcting problem and the parents learn pretty fast they should not be bringing their kids there. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/71 "2014-04-14T22:20:50Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Didn’t dig too far, but from the [Toronto website](https://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=5a81dada600f0410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD)it looks like most of those off leash areas are not fenced (at least some specifically mention that a fenced area is available while most do not). That would be more of a mixed area and I’d expect different rules. I’d also expect owners with romping idiot dogs or dogs that were nervous around children to be sure that they used an “off leash area” with a fence. > > Then I’d expect people to keep toddlers out of the fenced dog run and to control their toddlers as they walk through any unfenced off leash area. You can look at the doggies, but you can’t go touch them. And they should be walking through. There will be no play areas in the off leash area, so there is no particular reason for the kids to be there and nothing to keep their minds off of the dogs. > > If you don’t keep your kids away from the dogs, especially after someone says their dog doesn’t like kids, you are being a jerk and endangering your kid. If you are keeping the kids away from the dogs in a mixed use area, running you off is probably illegal and it’s possible that the guy was being a complete jerk. > > Texas is a big place and I guess I have no clue whether this was a fenced area or not. So she may have been completely legal and he may have been a jerk. But toddlers and strange dogs are a bad mix. I’d never fight for my right to expose my toddler to strange dogs. These rules are specific to High Park, which is fenced. It’s listed as such on your linked website. > [@](#): > > High Park (designated area) 1873 Bloor Street West at Parkside Drive CDW/FEN The “CDW/FEN” notation means that commercial dog walkers are allowed and it is fenced. However, people (including people with kids) walk through it all the time, to get to different parts of the park. Allowing one’s kids to approach/interact with a strange dog without the dog owner’s permission isn’t a good idea, I fully agree. But the notion that kids aren’t welcome in a substantial area or the park is a non-starter, at least in this city. No-one has a monopoly on the use of the park; at least, according to the officially-posted rules. I have never heard of an epidemic of kid-maulings in High Park (which contains a famous playground and a mini-zoo, so it attracts lots of kids - many of whom, as mentioned, get to these attractions by walking through the fenced area). Again maybe other places do it differently, I can’t say. but it seems reasonable to me that if everyone _can_ use the park, apparently without major problems as long as the above-noted rules are followed, everyone _should_ be allowed to use the park. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/72 "2014-04-14T22:33:11Z")
To provide perspective, here’s an example of rules that clearly prohibit children in the fenced area. [http://www.houstontx.gov/parks/dogparkrules.html](http://www.houstontx.gov/parks/dogparkrules.html) > [@](#): > > Dog Park Hours > Dawn to Dusk > > Owners are liable for damage or injury inflicted by their dog(s). This means owners are legally and financially responsible for their dog’s behavior. The City of Houston has no liability or responsibility for injuries in the dog park. > > Limit of 2 dogs per person per visit. > > Dogs must be properly licensed & vaccinated with City of Houston registration & rabies tags displayed on each dog’s collar. > > Dogs must be leashed before entering & upon leaving the Park & must be leashed in the transition corridor. Owners must have a visible leash for each dog at all times. > > Owners must have visible pet waste disposal materials at all times & must pick up your dog’s fecal matter & properly dispose of it in a trash receptacle. > > Owners must be in verbal & sight control of their dogs at all times & prevent aggressive behavior, biting, fighting, & aggressive barking. Never leave your dog(s) unattended. > > Dogs with a known history of dangerous behavior are prohibited. Immediately leash your dog(s) & leave the Dog Park if your dog behaves aggressively. > > No puppies under 4 months of age are allowed in the Dog Park. > > No female dogs in heat are allowed in the Dog Park. > > **No children age 12 or younger are allowed in the Dog Park. Children ages 13 through 18 must be accompanied by an adult. Permitted children must be supervised by the adult & behave appropriately: No running, shouting, chasing dogs, or petting other people’s dogs without the owner’s permission.** > > No dog or people food is allowed in the Dog Park. > > No smoking in the Dog Park. > > Violation of City Code results in fines & no further use of the Dog Park. [emphasis] Clearly, leash-free, fenced dog parks vary widely. In some, kids are expected and Okay, as in High Park. In others, they are not, as in the Houston dog park. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/73 "2014-04-14T22:48:33Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Maybe I should have said “control” rather than “direct control.” If you cannot prevent your dog from acting aggressive towards whatever happens to be in the park at the time- be it a fence post, dog or human- then it doesn’t get to be off leash. And if something enters the area that may provoke aggression, it’s the owners job to make sure that doesn’t happen, not the targets job to leave. My current dog is a retired guide dog breeder, who comes from generations of dogs bred to be non-aggressive. Any other dog can be aggressive if a little kid sticks his fingers up their noses or something. And dogs being playful can look aggressive to someone not familiar with dog behavior. I didn’t have a dog from when I was five to 45, and I had no idea of what dogs were saying when I interacted with them. Now I do know behavior that used to make me nervous doesn’t bother me at all. One of the things about a dog park containing only dog owners is that everyone there knows how to react. Tons of people let their dogs run in the field of the school across the street from me. I only know of two problems in 15 years. Dogs run up to me all the time, but they are being friendly, not aggressive - but a little kid might not know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/74 "2014-04-14T22:59:16Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > There is a good point here that dog parks vary. The image I have in my head are the little urban dog corners we have around here, that offer benches, shade and a place to poop, but aren’t any place that’s going to get too wild. Are you sure the parks you are talking about are even meant for dogs? I’m sure that there are dog owners there, but you can hardly call it a dog park if it’s not meant for dogs. What you describe sounds to me like a “pocket park” (a very small park , possibly as small as a single 20ft wide lot ) or what NYC calls “Greenstreets” - unused formerly paved areas ( wide medians, funny bends in the road) converted to greenspace which sometimes have benches. They’re barely even big enough to let a dog run around unleashed. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/75 "2014-04-14T23:37:05Z")
> [@randompattern](#): > > It doesn’t say in the OP, but I was wondering if the woman and her kids were just “at” the dog-park or if she actually tried to take her kids into the enclosed no-leash area with the dogs. > These are two very different things. > If the former then she’s in the right. > The latter, then yea I’d tell her to get the hell out. (plus she’s a fucking idiot!) If someone yelled at kids outside the fence he’d be a dick. Even if the kids stuck fingers inside the fence, not a good idea, it is not likely anything will happen. But I can’t imagine that’s the situation here. **Yllaria** has it right. Dogs, especially puppies, will play with each other in ways that would seem aggressive if they did it with children. Kids are not going to react the way a dog would expect them to react when expressing dominance. Maybe little kids in my neighborhood are smarter because they always ask my permission to pet my dog. But even a sweet Golden Retriever eager to meet a kid won’t know that she can knock them down by accident. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/76 "2014-04-14T23:57:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Every dog park I’ve ever went to was enclosed. The one near us even has areas for small dogs and big dogs. The while point is to let your dog off the leash to play with other dogs without having to worry about them going awol on you - and to keep people who might object to off-leash dogs out. Can’t say I’ve ever seen one. At any rate, the OP hasn’t returned to explain what \*s/he \*meant by a dog park. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/77 "2014-04-15T00:35:54Z")
The mother is in the wrong, the dog park is not a free babysitter/petting zoo/entertainment facility for her annoying semi sentient DNA packets, the fact that it’s an off leash park makes it even more precarious for larval humanoids… Heck, when I’m walking Cooper on the beach and a parent with child(ren) approach us, I have to advise them to let me shorten the leash to a minimum and get Cooper to sit first, he’s freindly, very much so, but he’s still a puppy, mentally, and has a tendency to jump if not on a short leash, he could easily knock a young child over in an attempt to be freindly, I let the parent know this before I let the child approach, and for the real youngsters, I actually hold Cooper’s collar and restrain him from being jumpy or pushy Until I can train him out of this behavior, it’d be irresponsible for me to take him to an off leash park, I am a responsible dog owner, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that the mother exercise the same responsibility with her spawn as well… It’d be just as irresponsible for her to bring her kids to an OLDP, as it would for me to bring Cooper to one until he’s properly socialized… ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/78 "2014-04-15T00:59:53Z")
I was curious about dog parks in my area (Maryland suburbs of DC). DC has 10 official dog parks and the rules specify that parents must be in control of kids under 16. PG county has two dog parks with no kids under something like 12 allowed. MoCo has a handful and similar rules about kids as DC. Whatever the rules are, I don’t think preschoolers belong in a dog park except in certain circumstances. I.e., if it’s a family taking their own dog to the park at a time when there are few, if any, other dogs there. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/79 "2014-04-15T01:12:53Z")
> [@brainstall](#): > > I don’t think dog bites are the biggest danger - most dogs that go to dog parks are pretty friendly, though I do think it far more likely that a small child will get slammed into and knocked down by playing dogs. Dogs get running and wrestling with each other and I’ve seen full grown adults swept off their feet. This. and the added part where if your dumbass takes your kid to the dog park and some rambunctious hundred pound hairball with a cast iron skull plows into your 50 pound precious at a speed just short of sound it is 100% your fucking fault, not the dogs, not the owner of the dogs, Yours. the real issue here is that you know goddamned well mom would do her best to put the blame on the owner and their dangerous dog and who the hell can afford a lawsuit even if they are right? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/80 "2014-04-15T01:17:00Z")
I’m on the legal but stupid side. Yes, ideally every dog owner in the off leash dog park should have excellent control over their dog - but am I willing to bet a four year old’s safety that that is the case? Heck, I sometimes regret taking my DOG to the dog park because some of the dogs are aggressive to other dogs and their owners don’t have excellent control. I wouldn’t yell at them to leave, but I would pull Mom aside and mention that sometimes the dogs here are aggressive and their owners don’t always have excellent control - and that it would only take a moment with little kids for a tragedy to occur. I also wouldn’t take an aggressive dog, or one who didn’t like children, to an off leash park. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062.md?page=5)