# People with multiple small children but no dog go to a dog park .... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062 "2014-04-14T01:44:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/101 "2014-04-17T04:50:09Z")
At my kids school there was one sidewalk about 6 feet wide leading to the area where kids are picked up and all the kids must walk on that sidewalk. I dont know how many times some stupid parent will bring their dog and have that damn mutt in the middle or side of that sidewalk and people have to walk around the dog and their leash. Hey lady, not everyone wants to pet your dog and the leash is a hazard. And the thing is their is a sign that says “No dogs allowed” but they do it anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/102 "2014-04-17T14:15:17Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Legally speaking, mom is right. > > In the court of common sense, mom is a stupid ass, and if I were a dog-owner, I’d leave every time she showed up, and try to get the other dog owners to do the same. See how long she wants to stay and let her kids frolic in an empty shit-filled park with no dogs. Agreed. This falls into my “choose your battles” category, and this wouldn’t be one of those battles worth pursuing. Taking kids to a dog park is fine, but ultimately, I feel it’s the domain of the dogs. At least around my city, if there are dog parks available, then there are most definitely numerous playgrounds for kids, too. I’d rather spend my time enjoying the day with the kids, and just avoid the conflict ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/103 "2014-04-17T14:49:29Z")
I don’t often side with dog owners. I find the average one to be overly absorbed with themselves and their dogs, unreasonably entitled and unashamed of their dog’s lack of training. However, some people in this thread strike me as the kind that would demand their legal right to honk their horns as they drive 15 cm past a horse at 40 mph, because it’s a _public_ road and I can damn well do as I please. If your horse is going to rear up and break your neck, you shouldn’t have it out in public. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/104 "2014-04-17T14:51:46Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Excellent point, Malthus. They were either [here](http://fortwoof.org/), or something like it; in other words, a park that is \*specifically \*designed for dogs to be allowed off-leash. It’s not a park where dogs happen to be allowed; it’s a park FOR DOGS (and their owners) and so is more like the latter in your post. > > Does that help? Let’s assume it is Fort Woof. This is clearly more a dog run than an enclosed park. According to the posted rules, children are allowed, but must be “under strict supervision”. If the parent has multiple small children, it is difficult to see how they could be strictly supervised. So she’s in the wrong. OTOH, the guy put himself partly in the wrong by yelling at her to get out. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/105 "2014-04-17T15:05:50Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Let’s assume it is Fort Woof. This is clearly more a dog run than an enclosed park. > > According to the posted rules, children are allowed, but must be “under strict supervision”. If the parent has multiple small children, it is difficult to see how they could be strictly supervised. So she’s in the wrong. > > OTOH, the guy put himself partly in the wrong by yelling at her to get out. Plus it was stupid of him to say that HIS dog didn’t like kids. He handled it poorly. But frankly, someone needed to smack Mom upside the head with a clue by four - perhaps more gently. Then again - maybe someone did try and tell her gently that 3 kids four and under in an off leash park wasn’t the best of ideas - but she’s one of those people who needed a much firmer reminder. Since it seems like Mom and her husband are darn sure to be exercising their rights by bringing their darlings to the park, I sure hope that the kids don’t get hurt by a rambunctious dog. Both for their sakes and for the sake of the dog. I have to agree with whomever upthread said if they see such a situation (multiple small kids - no dog of their own) they’d leave. I don’t want my dog put down because a three year old pulled on his ears or his tail, and he responded with a nip or a snarl. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/106 "2014-04-17T15:55:41Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I don’t often side with dog owners. I find the average one to be overly absorbed with themselves and their dogs, unreasonably entitled and unashamed of their dog’s lack of training. However, some people in this thread strike me as the kind that would demand their legal right to honk their horns as they drive 15 cm past a horse at 40 mph, because it’s a _public_ road and I can damn well do as I please. If your horse is going to rear up and break your neck, you shouldn’t have it out in public. Good point…if there’s a group more self-entitled than dog owners, it’s horse owners. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/107 "2014-04-17T16:57:49Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Of course it is. However, it is also different from a ‘dog run’ type park designed for dogs only. > > For the purposes of this analysis, the main difference is that the former is a general-use park in which dogs may go off-leash, and the latter is dedicated to dog use only. So it makes sense that in the former kids are allowed and the onus is on dog owners to prevent interfering with other users, while in the latter kids are usually not allowed, or if they are, the onus is on parents to keep them from interfering with the use of the park by dogs. > > The whole problem in this debate so far has been that one side has something like the former in mind, while the other side, the latter. Both could be, and are, called “dog parks” - see for example the rules for High Park I posted. It is called a “leash free dog park” and it is really a bit of urban forest with some trails, like the rest of the park: > > [High Park dog park pictures](http://www.highparktoronto.com/dogpark-img.php) > > You can see in the last pic that a road runs through it, and there is an ice-cream stand. > > In short, you can’t know who is in the right without knowing which type of park it is. If someone told a parent walking through High Park dog park to remove themselves, they would clearly be in the wrong; on the other hand, parents bringing kids to a ‘dog run’ would more likely be in the wrong [though I’m not crazy about people ‘yelling’ at each other in any event]. Would you really refer to a general use park that happens to have dogs as a dog park? Why? It’s a general park, not a dog park. And it would be an utterly insane dog owner to try to tell a parent to leave a general use park - there’d be no debate about who was in the wrong. I suspect people may be being disingenuous when claiming they didn’t know what “dog park” meant. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/108 "2014-04-17T17:12:13Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Would you really refer to a general use park that happens to have dogs as a dog park? Why? It’s a general park, not a dog park. And it would be an utterly insane dog owner to try to tell a parent to leave a general use park - there’d be no debate about who was in the wrong. > > I suspect people may be being disingenuous when claiming they didn’t know what “dog park” meant. Did you not look at the link in my post? I call it a “dog park” because that’s what it is officially called. Look at the link above - highparktoronto/dogpark. Moreover, the picks are entitled “High Park Leash Free Dog Park Pictures” This isn’t some carefully-hidden secret. Moreover, there are good reasons for calling it a “dog park” - namely, it is fenced, and dogs are allowed to go off-leash in it. I have never been call “disingenuous” for stating such an easily-verifyable fact before. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/109 "2014-04-17T18:17:59Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > . . . The rules of our offleash areas don’t prohibit children but they do specify the requirement to have them under control at all times. Three kids, two hands I’m betting that wasn’t true. I loved the bit after the rules: > [@](#): > > Fort Woof was established on the concept that dog owners would police themselves and each other. If you see someone who forgets the rules (i.e., forgets to pick up poop) politely introduce yourself, remind them of the rule, and thank them when they comply with the rule. Fort Worth is full of friendly folks who want to do the right thing. That’s the Fort Woof way! Sadly, among the many things that we don’t know, we don’t know if Mr. Go Away first introduced himself politely. Maybe we should make a list of questions to ask. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/110 "2014-04-19T11:53:34Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Did you not look at the link in my post? I call it a “dog park” because that’s what it is officially called. Look at the link above - highparktoronto/dogpark. Moreover, the picks are entitled “High Park Leash Free Dog Park Pictures” This isn’t some carefully-hidden secret. > > Moreover, there are good reasons for calling it a “dog park” - namely, it is fenced, and dogs are allowed to go off-leash in it. > > I have never been call “disingenuous” for stating such an easily-verifyable fact before. 😃 So that’s a specific dog park. It’s a fenced off area of a larger park intended for dog owners to use. The rest of the park is for general use, but the part you refer to as a dog park isn’t, and it’s fenced and labelled as such. I’m not sure why you’re arguing with me when you’re actually backing up my point that people would only call a dog park a dog park if it actually was one. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/111 "2014-04-19T14:23:04Z")
While I think that we have far too many dogs capable of injuring or killing humans, the counter argument that good owners, owners who treat their animals properly and who give them plenty of exercise, produce docile, not-dangerous dogs…is also correct. For that reason, and common sense, if there are dogs, there should be a place they can exercise and romp without endangering people. If a mother brings three toddlers to such a place, it may be a mistake, but it can also be a learning experience for the dogs if the owner handles the situation properly. It is sort of like putting out bait for a predator, though, so you can catch it. the risk to the children should outweigh any benefit that interaction with the dogs might furnish. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/112 "2014-04-19T14:53:31Z")
If there is no rule against children in the “dog park,” then dog owners should expect the potential presence of children. If you don’t feel that your dog should be trusted around children, then the onus is upon you, the dog owner, to control or depart with the dog when a child appears. Petitioning for the creation of such a rule would be fine; yelling at someone who is breaking a nonexistent rule that you wish existed certainly is not. I miss the days when parks were for everybody. Now nobody over eleven can play on the playground, dogs can’t be anywhere except their designated area, even if the tennis or basketball courts are completely empty one may not use them for any other purpose, etc. One can live directly next to a park, yet not be allowed to use it at all, even just to sit on a bench. It’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/113 "2014-04-19T14:53:59Z")
If your dog cannot play in public without posing a threat to the people who happen to be present (be they young, old, disabled or whatever) they don’t belong in a public park. You need to either find a private area (like your own backyard) for them to run and play in, or wait until the people your dog cannot be around are done using the public facility. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/114 "2014-04-19T15:04:59Z")
**AnaMen** , read the rest of the thread and the links to a likely dog park where this occurred. One of the rules is that young children have to be under strict supervision. It is very likely that one adult taking care of three small children means that none of the kids are under strict supervision, so the rule is not being followed. OTOH, the dog owner reacted poorly, also based on the information provided by the same link as the one listing the rules. **even sven** , while I agree that the dog owner handled the situation poorly, I do wonder what exactly was meant with “does not like kids”. Is it truly a case where the dog is kid-aggressive and will potentially attack the kid without provocation? If that is the case, then yes, the dog should not be in the dog park. Is the “does not like kids” more of a “doesn’t know how to behave around kids/may unintentionally harm them”? If this is the case, the dog should be allowed in the dog park, and is in fact for dogs like that that dog parks have the rules they do. Again, normal, non-aggressive dog behavior can be dangerous to little kids. It is not the dog’s fault that it is behaving like a dog, yet if something happens, an otherwise good dog will be facing death. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/115 "2014-04-19T15:42:04Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > **AnaMen** , read the rest of the thread and the links to a likely dog park where this occurred. One of the rules is that young children have to be under strict supervision. It is very likely that one adult taking care of three small children means that none of the kids are under strict supervision, so the rule is not being followed. > > OTOH, the dog owner reacted poorly, also based on the information provided by the same link as the one listing the rules. > > [ If the rule is that kids have to be strictly supervised and someone is not supervising their kids, then that is the rule being broken. Simply being present with kids is not disallowed. If no adult is capable of supervising three young children, we need to shut down nearly every preschool in operation, as this is far from a normal adult-to-child ratio. No evidence is given of misbehavior of the children or lack of parental attention. My local playground is utilized by several area schools. Every weekday, a group of well over a dozen two and three year olds is escorted by two adults, walking beside busy city streets, passing dogs, etc. The tots clutch a rope and walk single file without incident. They do not break loose and charge in front of cars, grab passing dog tails, or otherwise behave like wild beasts, so it is quite possible to keep young kids in check even when they outnumber you. I have never heard of a dog being put down for boisterously knocking a kid down and injuring it. If a dog bites or attacks a kid, and kids are allowed in the park, the dog was not kid-safe and should not have been there. ---
**Author:** ![MagicEyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@MagicEyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicEyes)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/116 "2014-04-19T16:52:05Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > If your dog cannot play in public without posing a threat to the people who happen to be present (be they young, old, disabled or whatever) they don’t belong in a public park. You need to either find a private area (like your own backyard) for them to run and play in, or wait until the people your dog cannot be around are done using the public facility. This is not true for dog parks. People who are small or fragile shouldn’t be in a place where dogs are running around. That’s what the dog park is for–so the dogs can run free. Dogs come first at the dog park. I’m sure a lot of dog parks have the rule that children need to be supervised and under control. That’s why it’s a dog park, not a park for children. The children have their own parks (actually, they have a lot more parks than the dogs do). Overall, I’m not sure anyone was completely in the right, but we don’t have the whole story. If the children were getting in the way and bothering the dogs, then it was okay for the dog owner to tell them to leave. If the children were supervised and under control, then it would be okay for them to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/117 "2014-04-19T17:51:43Z")
Its even possible that “my dog doesn’t like kids” is a complete and total fabrication made to try and make the point that an off leash dog park is not a safe place for small children. Regardless if every dog has been raised around children and is highly tolerant of having its ears pulled - which is almost certainly not the case. My dog is the biggest cupcake in the world - submissive, friendly, tolerant around all sorts of people and other dogs. Lets the cat beat him up. Unless you are the little white scotty that lives down the street. He hates that dog with the fire of a thousand suns. If that dog and my dog were to end up in the dog park at the same time - and there was a small child between them - all bets are off. My friends boxer LOVES children - thinks they all need to be knocked down and have their faces clean by her very big tongue. There are also dogs that just seldom are around children - you don’t know how they are going to react because they are owned by people who don’t spend time around kids. You wouldn’t think So its possible that mean dog owner was in fact making shit up to try and get the woman to realize that her kids weren’t safe. And if the woman had been approached in a more reasonable fashion and had laughed off the concerns of the friendly self policing dog owners, maybe the thing that would get through her head was “my dog doesn’t like children.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/118 "2014-04-19T19:52:24Z")
A dog that doesn’t like children isn’t necessarily a violent one. Just one that isn’t happy around kids. My sister’s cat is quite friendly and sociable. Unless there’s a child in the room, and suddenly she’s hiding under a bed somewhere. I imagine there are dogs that are like this too, except instead of hiding under a bed, they just aren’t as care-free and frolicky. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/119 "2014-04-19T19:52:34Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Good point…if there’s a group more self-entitled than dog owners, it’s horse owners. I’m going with vegetarians. ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062/120 "2014-04-19T23:38:53Z")
Nah…its dirt bike riders. I thought about this thread today when I saw a mom with a couple of toddlers standing outside the dog run and asking if her kids could pet the dogs. The kids joyfully mauled every dog they got their hands on, my dog included, but mom was involved and kept telling them to be careful. There are many right ways to teach kids how to react to animals. The mom the OP posted about did it all wrong. The mom I posted about did it right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-multiple-small-children-but-no-dog-go-to-a-dog-park/686062.md?page=7)