# People with two separate careers in show biz **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879 "2016-04-23T06:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/141 "2016-10-07T23:53:03Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Billy Corgan, best known as singer of the Smashing Pumpkins, also is “senior producer of creative and talent development” for TNA wrestling. Follow up, assuming the company hasn’t gone out of business since I last checked a couple of days ago, Mr. Corgan is now the (legit, not storyline) president of TNA wrestling. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/142 "2016-10-08T00:11:56Z")
Sam Shepard, for sure. Successful playwright. Well-known actor. Also, somewhat less successfully, a musician – he played drums in the Holy Modal Rounders, way back in the late 60s. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/143 "2016-10-08T15:11:23Z")
Ever hear of [Tim Minchin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Minchin)? Australian comedian, actor, writer, musician, composer and director? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/144 "2016-10-08T15:43:02Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Sam Shepard, for sure. > > Successful playwright. Well-known actor. > > Also, somewhat less successfully, a musician – he played drums in the Holy Modal Rounders, way back in the late 60s. Interestingly, Shepard was in _The Right Stuff_ with Levon Helm, and the two of them had most of their scenes together. Helm did a bit of acting, but was probably better known as drummer and singer for The Band. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/145 "2016-10-08T16:55:18Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Anyhow, whenever he directed himself – nothing; a number of actors who’ve been mentioned here racked up accolades when directing themselves, and also earned wins by doing each without the other, which we can tease apart as _separable_; but AFAICT, Newman only ever earned awards or even nominations when acting without directing, or directing without acting, and I figure that’s just _separate_. You say others have “earned wins by doing each without the other” which would seem to make Newman’s nominations less unique. So I’m not sure what your claim is. But Robert Redford got an Oscar best director nomination for Quiz Show and Ordinary People, which he didn’t star in, and a best actor nomination for The Sting, which he didn’t direct. Newman never got a best director Oscar nomination. So if you’re going to include every movie award in the world, not just the Oscars, I’m positive that list could be greatly lengthened. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/146 "2016-10-08T17:33:26Z")
Jackie Coogan - hugely popular child actor and much later, TV’s “Uncle Fester” Maurice Evans - highly acclaimed Shakespearean actor on the stage - much later, Samantha’s father on Bewitched and Dr. Zaius in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/147 "2016-10-08T18:14:45Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You say others have “earned wins by doing each without the other” which would seem to make Newman’s nominations less unique. So I’m not sure what your claim is. Well, it’s something I’d been mulling off and on since Page One, I guess – when I’d mentioned that Warren Beatty, after getting famous as a movie-star actor, eventually got into writing and directing… …but as far as I can tell, Beatty has only ever written or directed in projects where, y’know, famous movie star Warren Beatty was acting up on the big screen. So if someone were to take issue with saying Beatty counts as having had “completely separate careers” as per the OP, I’d get where they were coming from and maybe figure reasonable people could disagree; that Beatty earned Oscar nominations, and even an Oscar win, for his talents other than acting would be irrelevant. By contrast, > [@](#): > > But Robert Redford got an Oscar best director nomination for Quiz Show and Ordinary People, which he didn’t star in, and a best actor nomination for The Sting, which he didn’t direct. Yeah, I know; I mentioned Redford back on Page One as well, noting as you did that he did what Beatty didn’t: becoming a successful director when he wasn’t acting, just like he was a successful actor when he wasn’t directing – even though he _also_ borrows that page out of Beatty’s book, getting nominated for the occasional directing award for stuff he gets an acting award for starring in… …but, again, that last bit is irrelevant; it’s trivia. Still, _as a matter of trivia,_ my point was that Newman apparently took it even further: the movie he won a Golden Globe for directing (and an Oscar nomination for producing), along with everything else he ever even got a directing nomination for, is stuff he didn’t act in; and everything he got any acting awards or even noms for, was stuff he didn’t direct. So as easy as it is to hypothetically separate Robert-Redford-The-Acclaimed-Actor from Robert-Redford-The-Acclaimed-Director, it struck me as mildly interesting that it’s even _easier_ to so categorize everything Paul Newman ever racked up awards or nominations for; I can’t think of anyone else who fits that bill. > [@](#): > > Newman never got a best director Oscar nomination. So if you’re going to include every movie award in the world, not just the Oscars, I’m positive that list could be greatly lengthened. Well, even if we limit it to – I dunno, maybe just the Oscars and the Emmys and the Gioden Globes? – Newman is still in a weird place compared to Redford and Beatty (and Clint Eastwood, and Woody Allen, and Mel Gibson, and Kevin Costner, and other folks who get nominations for directing stuff they act in). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/148 "2016-10-08T19:30:35Z")
But Eastwood and Allen have both gotten acclaim for directing movies they didn’t appear in. Eastwood has several Golden Globe nominations for directing movies he didn’t star in. He has a nomination for original song, for Pete’s sake. Woody has an actual Oscar nomination for Midnight in Paris. His IMDb page shows 198 nominations! Mel Gibson got a BAFTA nomination for Apocalypto. Kenneth Branagh is an acclaimed actor/director; among his directing nominations is In the Bleak Midwinter from the Venice Film Festival and a Chicago Film Critics Best Director nomination for Peter’s Friends. Jodie Foster won a directing Emmy. I think the distinction between directing a movie with yourself in it and directing a movie without is a meaningless distinction. You’re either the director or you are not. And you either get recognized for it or not. That you got a Golden Globe nomination is almost more of an insult than not getting one. Actors direct all the time. Movies, television, plays, anything and everything. They have since forever. I see far less of a distinction between acting and directing than I do scriptwriting and acting. And that’s not a huge leap considering how many actors do it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/149 "2016-10-08T20:00:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But Eastwood and Allen have both gotten acclaim for directing movies they didn’t appear in. Eastwood has several Golden Globe nominations for directing movies he didn’t star in. He has a nomination for original song, for Pete’s sake. Woody has an actual Oscar nomination for Midnight in Paris. His IMDb page shows 198 nominations! Mel Gibson got a BAFTA nomination for Apocalypto. I know that all of them, unlike Beatty, have gotten nominations or even awards for stuff they didn’t act in. But they’ve _also_ gotten nominations or even awards for stuff they _did_ act in; and it surprised me, as a matter of trivia, to learn that Newman had only ever gotten wins or nominations when for projects he didn’t act in. (Heck, while even before this thread I could’ve told you stuff about Mel Gibson and Woody Allen and Clint Eastwood and Robert Redford and Warren Beatty directing movies, I genuinely _didn’t_ know Newman had ever done it – let alone that he’d won the Golden Globe for doing it! – and that he’d gotten nominated for awards for directing a number of other projects he didn’t act in.) > [@](#): > > I think the distinction between directing a movie with yourself in it and directing a movie without is a meaningless distinction. Could be; I might not have even thought of it, if not for the OP making mention of “completely separate careers in show business.” But I still find it interesting. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/150 "2016-10-08T21:01:25Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Theodore Bikel was a wonderful character actor in some pictures in the 50s and 60s, and also a well-known folk singer in the era that ushered in the hippies. Even more so, there’s Burl Ives. Probably one of the best known folk singers pre-WWII, and a major name in the field in the 50s and 60s. Started acting and won an Oscar in 1959. He’s best known today as the voice of Sam the Snowman in _Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer_. It’s a footnote to his career, but William Saroyan won a Pulitzer Prize for Drama and also a number one single. Others have done this, but they were all well known songwriters. Saroyan’s “Come On-a My House” (written with his cousin Ross “David Saville” Bagdasarian) was #1 for several weeks for Rosemary Clooney. Erich von Stroheim is considered one of the great directors of the silent era. He turned to acting once sound came in (his reputation as a perfectionist made him unemployable) and appeared in several classics, including _The Grand Illusion_ and _Sunset Boulevard_ (where he played a thinly disguised version of himself. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879/151 "2016-10-08T21:06:43Z")
Marjoe Gortner: 1. Evangelist preacher 2. Hippie rock musician 3. Actor (mostly bad sci-fi and action flicks, but a couple of attempts at Art) 4. Producer of charity golf tournaments. > **[Marjoe Gortner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjoe_Gortner)** > > Hugh Marjoe Ross Gortner (born January 14, 1944) is a former evangelist preacher and actor. He first gained public attention during the late 1940s when his parents arranged for him to be ordained as a preacher at age four, due to his extraordinary speaking ability. He was the youngest known in that position. As a young man, he preached on the revival circuit and brought celebrity to the revival movement. > He became a celebrity again during the 1970s when he starred in Marjoe (1972), a behind-the-... > **[Marjoe Gortner - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0331374/)** > > Marjoe Gortner. Actor: Starcrash. In his early career as the 4-year-old "World's Youngest Ordained Minister," Pentecostal preacher Hugh Marjoe Ross Gortner became a 'Miracle Child' extraordinaire. Born on January 14, 1944 in Long Beach, California,... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-with-two-separate-careers-in-show-biz/752879.md?page=7)