# People you know who celebrate Kwanzaa? And does teaching our kids this do us well? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 5, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110 "2011-12-05T06:37:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/81 "2011-12-08T11:48:34Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I don’t care if people celebrate Kwanzaa. I don’t think it’s “wrong” or "bad’ or \_\_\_\_, though I do think of it as a political holiday. You say that, but then you say a bunch of other things that would lead one to believe otherwise. And no, I’m not going to go through and find them all. It’s been done. > [@](#): > > I’m questioning **why we teach it if black people don’t celebrate i** t. I don’t think they NEED to teach about it, and I don’t think it hurts anything to do a quick, accurate lesson about it. Same as pretty much every other holiday in the world. > [@](#): > > That’s my question. Do you nor understand the difference? Chinese people celebrate Chinese New Year (and people from other Asian nations celebrate various new years and such). Black people don’t celebrate Hanukkah in those numbers - not per cent wise. Can you distinguish between these two things? A per cent of a whole? Yes, I just fail to see why the distinction is so important. But okay, here’s another analogy for you to take issue with: in 9th grade my class spent a whole quarter learning about India, and included several religions that a small minority of Indians are part of. > [@](#): > > No. You don’t understand. I’m a history teacher. When my kid comes home and does the, “This is what I learned in school today thing,” he’s proud of what he can recall. Most kids are. So when I had to gently explain that \* it’s not exactly\* a black people’s holiday because most don’t celebrate it, he just had this…oh…:smack: _fail!_…look on his face. > > Finally, his lesson on Kwanzaa, as cute as it was, gave black people another Other label that wasn’t necessary. Yeah, if it was said or implied that most black people celebrate Kwanzaa, it shouldn’t have been. I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with that. But your comments have gone way beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/82 "2011-12-08T14:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Kwanzaa is a week long celebration held in the United States honoring universal African-American heritage and culture, observed from December 26 to January 1 each year. It features activities such as lighting a candle holder with seven candles[1] and culminates in a feast and gift giving. **It was created by Maulana Karenga and was first celebrated in 1966–1967.** There is an strong argument to be made that Kwanzaa is racist. Frankly, I don’t care either way, because I prefer to celebrate the winter solstice and stay out of the whole mess entirely. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/83 "2011-12-08T14:27:35Z")
Why do you say things that are dumb? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/84 "2011-12-08T14:39:57Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I love all the white people who don’t know anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa, and know next to nothing about the holiday’s origins and history, informing us all about it’s cultural significance. It’s hilarious! We have someone in the thread who actually celebrates it, but her contribution is drowned out by white people explaining. > > Welcome to the dope. Heh, last I checked some verifiably Black people were also saying that observance of the holiday is vanishingly small. Not that one needs to be of a particular nationality, ethnicity or religion to comment on a holiday celebrated by that nationality, ethnicity or religion. One does not see, for example, the Jews in this thread bent out of shape by non-Jews daring to discuss Hanukkah and Purim, the Christians by non-Christians daring to discuss Christmass, or the Americans by non-Americans discussing the 4th of July. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/85 "2011-12-08T15:36:57Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > It’s 1) offensive and 2) historically incorrect. > > :smack: According to [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)), the origins of Thanksgiving are pretty much exactly as how they were taught in elementary school. Is the bug up your butt just because they dare to say “Indians” and not “Native Americans”? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/86 "2011-12-08T23:32:43Z")
Something about dressing up in feathers and face paint and pow-wowing a room seems mildly offensive to me. And I love how they always leave out the fact that Squanto knew English because he’d been a slave. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/87 "2011-12-09T00:01:27Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > And yes, I resent the notion that Kwanzaa is akin to Hanukkah because there are only 5-6 million Jews in America. Resent the hell out of it all you want, but in terms of the percentage of Americans who celebrate it, Kwanzaa does appear to be akin to Hanukkah. In terms of raw numbers, they are in fact comparable. This isn’t to overstate the importance of Kwanzaa. But if you are going to throw around that Kwanzaa isn’t important because “nobody celebrates it,” well, be prepared to be consistent with what “nobody” celebrates. I think a good parallel to Kwanzaa is historically black universities. Most African-Americans do not go to historically black universities. Plenty of African-Americans think they are a silly idea, unnecessary in the current age, etc. If you asked your black friend at work, he or she probably wouldn’t have much to say about them. For most African-Americans, it’s just not a part of their life. But in other communities- especially in places with a strong African-American community, historically black universities are an important part of their identity and culture. And they do represent some important things about not just African-American culture, but American culture in general. And a lot just depends on where you are. If you live in New Orleans, you’d conclude that Mardi Gras is the most important American holiday and everyone celebrates it. If you live in Boston, you’d think that white people really, really, really value St. Patrick’s day. If you liv ein Honolulu, neither one will be a blip on your radar and you’ll probably think white people mostly like Chinese New Year. Likewise, if you hang out in upscale black communities, you probably won’t have to look too far to find someone who values Kwanzaa. If you live in a place with a smattering of African-Americans who don’t really share many cultural institutions, you probably won’t find Kwanzaa celebrants. My horse in this race is that I’m unconvinced that the statistics are what rub people the wrong way about Kwanzaa. Nobody gets all squeely about Earth Day or how much we half-ass Labor Day or how if you ask a random person on the street about Flag Day, they, they probably won’t be able to give an explanation of what it is. I’m pretty sure the lurking motivation behind a lot of this, which is probably unconscious, is the feeling that the content isn’t worthy. Again, look at all this shit we throw at African-American naming traditions. If you name your kids Kareem and Aisha, you are being pretentious by taking African names when you only have a tenuous connection to Africa. If you name your kids Ailika and Taliquo, you are accused of choosing names that are not “authentically” African. If you choose names like D’Shawn and Shaniqua, you are “making up” names. I think the grudge against Kwanzaa stems from the same impulse. Anything black people do to try to talk about their identity is too African, or not African enough, or to new, or too American, or not American enough…in the end, the story is that we’d just rather they shut up about their identity, name their kids “Jennifer” and “Greg” and keep pretending like they don’t have a culture or a history. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/88 "2011-12-09T00:40:20Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Resent the hell out of it all you want, but in terms of the percentage of Americans who celebrate it, Kwanzaa does appear to be akin to Hanukkah. Yes. I suppose if you were terribly poor at reading statistics, it would seem that way. > [@](#): > > In terms of raw numbers, they are in fact comparable. This isn’t to overstate the importance of Kwanzaa. But if you are going to throw around that Kwanzaa isn’t important because “nobody celebrates it,” well, be prepared to be consistent with what “nobody” celebrates. Your anger is almost understandable if I had in fact insisted that Kwanzaa was not important. To black people in general, it isn’t. I’m just calling it how it is. You, apparently, have some weird agenda that proposes Kwanzaa being ten times more important or celebrated or acknowledged than it really is. > [@](#): > > My horse in this race is that I’m unconvinced that the statistics are what rub people the wrong way about Kwanzaa. Nobody gets all squeely about Earth Day or how much we half-ass Labor Day or how if you ask a random person on the street about Flag Day, they, they probably won’t be able to give an explanation of what it is. If you don’t care for Kwanzaa, don’t like the way it’s being taught, or perhaps you think it has an ethno-centric/racist/political connotation that is not healthy nor reflective of your values, you’re just a self-hating black person or racist. Right? > [@](#): > > I’m pretty sure the lurking motivation behind a lot of this, which is probably unconscious, is the feeling that the content isn’t worthy. There are some pretty legit oppositions to the holiday (by blacks and whites) because of the background of Kwanzaa and its founder. But it has nothing to do with… > [@](#): > > Again, look at all this shit we throw at African-American naming traditions. If you name your kids Kareem and Aisha, you are being pretentious by taking African names when you only have a tenuous connection to Africa. If you name your kids Ailika and Taliquo, you are accused of choosing names that are not “authentically” African. If you choose names like D’Shawn and Shaniqua, you are “making up” names. What does Shaniqua have to do with Kwanzaa?! > [@](#): > > I think the grudge against Kwanzaa stems from the same impulse. Anything black people do to try to talk about their identity is too African, or not African enough, or to new, or too American, or not American enough…in the end, the story is that we’d just rather they shut up about their identity, name their kids “Jennifer” and “Greg” and keep pretending like they don’t have a culture or a history. You seriously…just lost me. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/89 "2011-12-09T00:48:22Z")
According to [this pro-Kwanzaa article](http://blogs.blackvoices.com/2009/12/18/kwanzaa-popularity-falling-some-say-that-it-is/), Kwanzaa just isn’t growing in popularity and celebrants are about 1 per cent of the African American population. That’s not the US population. That’s black folks. So yeah. I resent my school perpetuating a myth to my kid, but I’m not going to call the teacher over it. \ But if you want to continue with that same BS line about how it’s just like Hanukkah, remember that while a tiny per cent of blacks celebrate Kwanzaa, about 3/4ths of Jews celebrate Hanukkah. So stop spewing about things you don’t know about. That’s what got me irritated in this thread - not a first grade history lesson on Kwanzaa. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/90 "2011-12-09T02:40:52Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Yes. I suppose if you were terribly poor at reading statistics, it would seem that way. 😕 [QUOTE=wikipedia] In 2004, BIG Research conducted a marketing survey in the United States for the National Retail Foundation, which found that 1.6% of those surveyed planned to celebrate Kwanzaa. If generalized to the US population as a whole, this would imply that around 4.7 million people planned to celebrate Kwanzaa in that year.[9] [/QUOTE] I’m not sure what I’m missing. Is there a way of misinterpreting “4.7 million people planned to celebrate Kwanzaa in that year”? ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/91 "2011-12-09T04:33:16Z")
Whoopie Goldberg, herself, has asked the question, “What the hell is Kwanza?” I’ve attended a couple celebrations, which were colorful and had fantastic music. But even if I was strung up on the Rack, I couldn’t tell you what it’s about. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/92 "2011-12-09T06:31:08Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > 😕 > > I’m not sure what I’m missing. Is there a way of misinterpreting “4.7 million people planned to celebrate Kwanzaa in that year”? According to Dr. Keith Mayes, it’s about 500k to 2 million. So yeah. eta: [this guy](http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/life_style/home_family_life_style/15058). ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/93 "2011-12-09T09:00:16Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Rest assured, more than 2 per cent of Chinese people celebrate the Chinese New Year. Being raised from 7 onward in a Chinese family and all, I can tell you that using the Chinese New Year is a bad analogy. But telling kids that Chinese people serve fortune cookies in Shanghai after dinner would be bad. You were adopted by a Chinese family? > [@even\_sven](#): > > Again, look at all this shit we throw at African-American naming traditions. If you name your kids Kareem and Aisha, you are being pretentious by taking African names when you only have a tenuous connection to Africa. If you name your kids Ailika and Taliquo, you are accused of choosing names that are not “authentically” African. If you choose names like D’Shawn and Shaniqua, you are “making up” names. It does sound incredibly retarded. I just find it funy that the two authentic African names you picked were Muslim ones. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/94 "2011-12-09T12:08:20Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > It does sound incredibly retarded. I just find it funy that the two authentic African names you picked were Muslim ones. And this sounds retarded to me. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/95 "2011-12-09T12:13:58Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > It does sound incredibly retarded. I just find it funy that the two authentic African names you picked were Muslim ones. West Africa is a pretty Muslim place, and has been for a thousand years. Go there, and you will meet a lot of people with Muslim names. That, and local names don’t usually translate well. No African Americans name their kids “Doudou” and “Divawissa”. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/96 "2011-12-09T13:29:09Z")
FWIW, Aissatou and Amadou (Aisha and Ahmed) in West Africa are pretty much exactly like saying Maria and Jose in Spain. They are shorthand for “generic common name.” saying “But they are Muslim names” is as absurd as insisting that Maria and Jose are not really Spanish names. But I could have probably guessed that even Africans are somehow not African enough for you. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/97 "2011-12-09T14:02:11Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > West Africa is a pretty Muslim place, and has been for a thousand years. Go there, and you will meet a lot of people with Muslim names. That’s nice. I’ve lived there. And am African. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/98 "2011-12-09T14:07:11Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > That’s nice. I’ve lived there. And am African. But she was in the peace corps. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/99 "2011-12-09T14:16:58Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I’m not sure what I’m missing. Is there a way of misinterpreting “4.7 million people planned to celebrate Kwanzaa in that year”? How the heck does that math work? There’s like 38 million black people in the U.S., so 1.6% would be a bit over 600K people. Are there over 4 million non-blacks celebrating Kwanzaa? Or am I misunderstanding the algebra? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110/100 "2011-12-09T14:53:05Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > That’s nice. I’ve lived there. And am African. Well then your comment was extra bizarre and baffling. Americans can be ignorant about America. I guess it makes sense that works in Africa as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-you-know-who-celebrate-kwanzaa-and-does-teaching-our-kids-this-do-us-well/605110.md?page=6)