So?
It doesn’t really seem to me like she’s the one making a big deal of it. The OP is the one who brought it up and who feels it caused her kid significant emotional distress and all. Even if I think it’s unnecessary, it sure wouldn’t BOTHER me if my kid was taught about it in school. You know, unless they decided to forgo math that year to concentrate on nothing but Kwanzaa. But a few pages in a paper booklet? Who cares?
Never said she was “making a big deal of it.” I just find it laughable, and frankly bizarre, that her new angle is pushing what a big deal Kwanzaa is to so many people. She should have just stuck with her original point, which was “Kwanzaa is made up” is a silly criticism. I also find the OP to be silly and can’t imagine feeling mildly irritated, let alone crushed, by finding that not as many people celebrate a holiday as I once thought.
Edit: And also, I don’t have kids, but I couldn’t give a fuck what holidays they talk about in school. I was brought up Christian, but as my school had a lot of Jewish kids, we had a general holiday play, and I sang Hannukah songs and the whole nine. Not a big deal, wouldn’t feel bothered by it in the slightest, even if I thought it was the Official World’s Stupidest Holiday.
Totally.
Hey Mom, why do stores sell those pitiful Charlie Brown Christmas trees?
Hey Mom, what’s Festivus?
Hey Mom, why does TNT repeat A Christmas Story all day on Dec 25th?
Hey Mom, what’s Midnight Mass?
Hey Mom, why do people watch It’s a Wonderful Life around the holidays?
Why do people decorate their houses with colorful lights, what’s that got to do with Jesus’ birth?
Why do people have a big meal on Christmas/wrap presents with pretty paper/ have Christmas trees/ place Menorah’s in windows/add your personal family tradition here and it still won’t be a big freaking deal to explain why people do what they do to your kid. Explaining things is a big part of your job, and if you are doing it right, you share facts and cultural values and you won’t impart your personal prejudice.
I guess that’s just not what I got from what** even sven** said, that Kwanzaa really is a big deal to everyone, but more that the OP at times seems to be ridiculing the idea that anyone would even think it’s worth mentioning.
My kid came home from Kindergarten or 1st grade one day all excited about Chinese New Year because a classmate’s parent had come in and done a presentation about it and she thought it was so cool. I talked with her about it and we looked up what “year of the ____” everyone we knew was born in and that was that. I didn’t take pains to point out to her that OMG don’t you know that nobody in this country cares about Chinese New Year?! and wonder why the school had mislead her so.
And actually, several years later, she still likes Chinese New Year more than most people, because she’s obsessed with dragons. So I guess that’s the point. Expose the kids to a bunch of stuff and maybe it will spark an interest in one of them.
(emphasis mine)
I like this the best. Your girl might choose to study an Eastern language, might dream of travel to that region, might just dig dragons all her life. Or kid might befriend or date someone who follows different cultural traditions, and it shouldn’t be a mystery or a conflict of belief systems to relate to the other’s experience. Either way, learning about something outside one’s realm can be an enriching experience. It’s a small world. Might as well start exploring it sooner rather than later.
We don’t need to be commanded to get drunk.
The Irish don’t generally dress up like Persian concubines while getting drunk.
Which almost made going to Saturday school worthwhile as a young teen … 
Edit: not that us young teens were allowed to get drunk. Ah, well.
A holiday snob? I’ve never been called that one before. Okay.
That’s probably not what she said, but that’s what he got from it. Social Studies is his favorite class (and rightfully so). When I say “crushed”, I mean, “that look on a kid’s face when he realized he had it all wrong”, not, “slit my wrists in a warm bath.” He thought Kwaznaa to black people was like Hanukkah to Jews. He loves learning about other countries and cultures. He’s a bit of a nerd in a good wholesome spongy way.
To some Jews, it still is.
Hanukkah is a hooplah. We’ve established that.
Huh? Me? I’d be happy if people stopped trying to commercialize Hanuakkh. I don’t care if kids don’t learn about Hanukkah in public school. And I don’t care if they do, though I’d rather they learned about other cultures in general instead of the “Jewish Christmas” everyone plays it off as. Jews actually celebrate Hanukkah. Blacks don’t celebrate Kwanzaa. Not enough to qualify that statement, anyway.
Significant distress? Are you reading what I write or what someone else writes? Or are you just being this way on purpose?
[QUOTE]
Maybe I figured with that huge tuition bill and everything, they’d do a little bit better with curriculum. Oh hell, what am I saying? This is the same school who lets the kindergarteners dress up like ‘Indians and Pilgrims’ every Thanksgiving. I’m a social studies teacher who feels like I’m already un-teaching in my regular classroom. I don’t want to do it at home.
Did you read the part where I said I didn’t mind if they learned about Kwanzaa? I’m wondering if it does our kids any good to do this around Christmastime, if it does the black community any good, if it’s even proper how they are teaching it.
Rest assured, more than 2 per cent of Chinese people celebrate the Chinese New Year. Being raised from 7 onward in a Chinese family and all, I can tell you that using the Chinese New Year is a bad analogy. But telling kids that Chinese people serve fortune cookies in Shanghai after dinner would be bad.
I don’t like misinformation and stereotyping in my son’s school. Okay, maybe it’s more PC for the Jewish kids in private school to think that the black ones down the street in the public schools have kinaras, kentes, and black, green, and red candles on their mantles. :smack:
Yeah, except you keep bitching about what’s wrong with Kwanzaa. You say you have zero objection to it from one side of your mouth, but from the other proclaim that you find it to be a wholly fabricated and weird “dud” of a holiday, and are perplexed as to why anyone would “insist on teaching it” or celebrating it. You seem to characterize it as something created on a whim last Tuesday by some guy in a dashiki, and call it “wrong” to compare it to a religious holiday. Okay, got it, you don’t like Kwanzaa. Don’t piss “Oh no, I see nothing wrong with it – it’s the misinformation and potential harm to the black community that I dislike!” on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
My understanding of Kwanzaa is that it is a creation of the Black Power movement of the late 60s early 70s. The issue is whether it can make the leap to broader relevance with kids as the generation raised in that setting starts to fade.
Too early to tell yet, but indications are that it isn’t ever going to attract widespread observance, as opposed to official recognition.
From what I’ve heard, most Blacks do not actually celebrate the holiday. The holiday is sometimes encouraged on an official level, as a sign of ethnic inclusiveness in spite of the fact that not many celebrate it (for example, in Toronto I was taught about the holiday even though very few here actually celebrates it, including Black people - most of whom have origins in the Caribbean or Africa).
In summary, it strikes me as sort of like the Esperanto of holidays - a core of well-intentioned followers who consistently exaggerate its significance and some level of official backing and support because it is a handy way of demonstrating good intentions.
More years than not, the local newspaper features some African-American family, usually living in the ethnically diverse university area, celebrating Kwanzaa. They’re all wearing dashikis, there’s an entire page of photographs, and detailed descriptions of the holiday. In spite of this, I have never seen nor heard anyone around here ever mention Kwanzaa, though I have seen a greeting card or two in the Hallmark store.
I like this. The level of faux concern present in the OP makes the black baby Jesus cry.
I love all the white people who don’t know anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa, and know next to nothing about the holiday’s origins and history, informing us all about it’s cultural significance. It’s hilarious! We have someone in the thread who actually celebrates it, but her contribution is drowned out by white people explaining.
Welcome to the dope.
My mistake, I meant to say that he was just “crushed” and “really upset”. Obviously that’s a far cry from significant distress.
Yeah but you think all holidays are a bad analogy with Kwanzaa, the most uniquely wrong holiday ever. Still, the fact remains that Chinese New Year is insignificant to almost everyone in this country, and my kid didn’t even take that into consideration and the school didn’t even make it clear.
I can see why you wanted to tell your kid that not all black people do celebrate Kwanzaa, so he wouldn’t go around wishing random black people a happy Kwanzaa (as funny as that would be), but I just don’t see why it had to be upsetting, and I don’t think it would have been, if you would have put it differently to him than I’m imagining you did based on your attitude and words here. “Hey kid, ya know, a lot of black people don’t celebrate Kwanzaa, but some do, and if you’re interested, we can check out a web site/book/event about it.” = not traumatizing
I don’t care if people celebrate Kwanzaa. I don’t think it’s “wrong” or "bad’ or ____, though I do think of it as a political holiday. Moreso-
I’m questioning why we teach it if black people don’t celebrate it. That’s my question. Do you nor understand the difference? Chinese people celebrate Chinese New Year (and people from other Asian nations celebrate various new years and such). Black people don’t celebrate Hanukkah in those numbers - not per cent wise. Can you distinguish between these two things? A per cent of a whole?
No. You don’t understand. I’m a history teacher. When my kid comes home and does the, “This is what I learned in school today thing,” he’s proud of what he can recall. Most kids are. So when I had to gently explain that * it’s not exactly* a black people’s holiday because most don’t celebrate it, he just had this…oh…:smack: fail!…look on his face.
Finally, his lesson on Kwanzaa, as cute as it was, gave black people another Other label that wasn’t necessary.
His Kwanzaa thing from school is still on our dining room wall, next to the turkey he made for Thanksgiving and the future spot for his fabric menorah. <shrug>
But every black person I’ve talked to either says, “Pssht. White people think we celebrate Kwanzaa but we really don’t” or they get into a long schpeal about how much they hate Kwanzaa. Or they don’t know much about it themselves.
So I’d say my original question was a pretty fair one. And yes, I resent the notion that Kwanzaa is akin to Hanukkah because there are only 5-6 million Jews in America. If someone taught Hanukkah stuff to kids in schools and neglected to mention that it’s not a major festival, I’d raise an eyebrow but no harm done. But if I’m hearing that so and so in the public school down the street is teaching kids that Jews are swinging chickens around their heads for the New Year, well, I mean, come on. I’d be pissed. Or if they took an ancient tradition done by a minority of us and made it as though everyone did it and placed the utmost significance on it.
And I don’t really think schools need to teach about Hanukkah just to feel better about Christmas, but I don’t mind. It’s their own deal. I do wish people would stop making it the Jewish Christmas, though. That I do find annoying and not at all helpful when I’m trying to explain to my students why I don’t have a Hanukkah bush with blue lights.
In case you forgot that one. :rolleyes:
tl;dr at bottom.
I’ve never heard of anyone celebrating Kwanzaa, either, in real life. It is also a little hard for me to equate a religion that is only 6 years older than I am with the other established religions on equal footing. Which is not to say I don’t think it “counts” or anything.
Hell, I love holidays and if I knew anything about it I might celebrate Kwanzaa myself (assuming that wouldn’t offend black people–I don’t know–would it?) just to have another fun day to do unusual and special things. As it is I’m woefully ignorant on the details of Kwanzaa. I’ve looked at the Wikipedia page but haven’t brought myself to read the whole thing before.
In all fairness, I celebrate Christmas despite not being a Christian or believing in baby Jesus or any of that stuff. For me Christmas is family and friends, spending time together, eating lots of special occasion food, and of course PRESENTS. I love trying to find the prefect present for family and friends (this year mostly family as funds can’t spread the circle very wide) and it’s always fun to see what people have picked out for me. I celebrate Christmas as a fun day to do something different, and excuse to decorate and act a little different, indulge with meals, etc. I don’t buy into the religious aspects of it at all, but that doesn’t diminish my enjoyment of the holiday.
If I knew enough about Kwanzaa and it sounded like it had fun rituals and customs associated with it I’d totally celebrate it. Maybe I’ll study up on it this year or next year and start–who knows?
I’ve considered celebrating Hanukkah before but it seems like it takes too long and involves too many lighted candles for a house with 3 cats. I do like the days and days of gifts–especially if you get someone something that comes in many parts I no, I don’t mean an assembly-required item given piecemeal, but rather a camera. Then some lenses. Then a camera bag. then some extra memory cards. Then an extra battery. Then a tripod. Something like that. I’ve gotten the impression–and don’t shoot me if I’m wrong because I MAY WELL BE. This is just an IMPRESSION and I don’t know how it congealed in my mind, but I have the impression that Hanukkah foods are more… spartan? less festive? Not the kind of thing you spend all year waiting to have again next Hanukkah? If I’m wrong, PLEASE tell me, as it’s embarrassing to be wrong about stuff like that (I looked it up online but didn’t know what any of the individual foods were to know if they were considered high brow or low brow).
I also celebrate Easter, though not nearly as much now that my son is grown (16) but we did elaborate Easter basket stunts when he was really little, with a path of “tracked in” grass from the door to his room, where the Easter Bunny must have had it on his feet, etc… These days we might just have a more special than usual dinner or go out to eat, and then of course buy all the candy on sale the next day.
I’m not especially patriotic and especially not jingoistic, but I love my country and am glad I live here. Not having lived in any other countries I can’t objectively say we’re the best, but we’re better than a lot of what I’ve seen on TV (though some places, like Canada, Britain, etc) look quite appealing. But I don’t automatically back every decision our government makes and wave a flag and proclaim that we’re number one! For some things (like going into Afghanistan after 9/11) I approved of the government. I hung a small flag in the front window of the house. When we invaded Iraq, I took it down as I no longer supported what our government was doing. So in a lot of people (mostly conservatives it seems) I’m not “A Patriot”… but I like to celebrate the 4th of July even so. I try to be respectful of days like Veterans’ Day even though AFAIK the closest my family has to a war casualty was my great-great grandfather, who fought for the Union in the Civil War.
I celebrate Valentine’s day even though I know it’s made of whole cloth by the greeting card industry, but it’s fun. It’s fun finding just the right card, buying chocolate, occasionally a small gift. Going out to dinner. Etc.
So I guess my point is that we in my family (my generation–not including my parents or earlier here) celebrate as many holidays as possible, without being offensive to anyone. I would have no problem at all with the school teaching my son about Kwanzaa. Maybe he could then teach me something about it. Maybe we’d start celebrating it in a minor and subdued way.
I don’t know many people who take Kwanzaa seriously, though, blacks or whites or any other ethnicity. Most people think of it as a made-up, new, fake religion to “equalize” the holiday season and make it more fair to black people. I don’t know how true that is. I don’t know the background that went into it becoming a holiday.
tl;dr:
No, I don’t know anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa, but I think that teaching more about it to our kids is a positive step, as I think that kids should be exposed to as many different and diverse cultures as possible.
…so? 
It’s 1) offensive and 2) historically incorrect.
:smack: