Didn’t you see the link, empathy isn’t instinct. It’s triggered if not learned.
As for you apparent “sarcasm” that is the truth behind empathy. No matter what people say, they cannot understand how someone else feels because they aren’t that person. It’s the height of hubris to say otherwise.
Such an opinion would run contrary to the general consensus. Aside from empathy making sense for a social species, from an evolutionary point of view, plenty of data shows it to be instinctive particularly for those close to us. Have you heard of mirror neurons?
It’s the height of hubris to think I know how someone feels * when they’re telling me how they feel* :dubious:
Very surprised you bit that bullet
I’ll hazard a guess that someone who is screaming, with burns over 70% over their body, is in physical pain.
Bullshit. You can reasonably argue that it includes a component of hubris (and I doubt anyone would quibble), but ‘nothing more than hubris’? Bullshit.
Empathy persists as a concept because it has a somewhat reliable hit rate.
I think you’re ceding too much ground even saying that Mangetout.
There’s nothing inherent about empathy that it must rely on guesswork. In most cases either a person is telling us how they feel, or showing in some obvious way such are screaming in pain or crying.
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No, it’s just an unreliable leftover from human evolution, like armpit hair.
Even thought such “obvious methods” you are still making a guess as to what they are Feeling. It’s the greatest delusion mankind has.
Why do you care what I think?
I think dont understand the actual consensus, and you still haven’t read the link. There is no data to show that it is instinctual. And in regards to mirror neurons, their function and purpose still remains unknown.
Well, explain yourself, then. Why is it wrong to invest wisely in empathy for others, on the grounds that they will likely display empathy for you?
If all you’ve got is “Nuh-uh!” then you aren’t worth debating.
Because the “investment” isn’t worth the return. Also as I have stated, empathy is a lie. You cannot understand someone else because you aren’t them.
You don’t invest in a maybe with poor returns. Kindness to others is hope that they will return the favor and they often don’t.
Your very existence at the moment is probably due to someone having “invested” in you without getting anything in return, at least not immediately.
A parent is “investing” in a baby by feeding it, changing its diaper, etc., and in return they get a crying, fussing baby that soils its diapers, makes a stink, wakes up the parents by crying in the night, etc. Any “expectation of return” is ludicrous in that situation, yet countless parents around the world do just that - show unconditional love or “investment” in their kids.
A hospital patient, with burns over 70% of his body, screaming and writhing - hmmm, let’s guess, is he screaming because he’s in agony…or because the Mariners lost to the Orioles? How could one possibly guess? It’s an enigma! :rolleyes:
Because it ultimately comes down to you guessing. Doesn’t matter how much proof you think you have, ultimately it’s a guess.
Thank you for proving my point.
I must say that for someone who claims to strenuously avoid giving a shit about other humans, it’s awful nice of you to come and share your wisdom and insight with us.
How is it that you could possibly know we’d want that though? I mean, it being impossible to know the minds of others.
If the OP said he felt regretful, for having started this thread, or embarrassed, for having suggested we can’t know how people feel even when they’re telling us how they’re feeling …I would empathize, is all I’m saying.
Even then telling you isn’t proof enough. People lie
Firstly you haven’t given any reason why that would make it * irrational *. People can lie in all kinds of situation, in business, relationships etc.
Are all interactions with other humans irrational, by your logic, due to a nonzero possibility of deception?
Secondly as pointed out there are situations where the chance of someone lying is effectively zero: eg looking after a burns victim. You haven’t commented on this at all.
Finally you’ve been using the term “hubris” several times. But this is a very strange word choice here. It’s hubris to take at face value what someone is said to me?
I have already stated why such things are irrational. Every human conversation is based on the belief that they are telling you the truth. You cannot know for certain if they aren’t lying, to say otherwise is illogical.
There is no situation where there is a nonzero chance of lying.
Lastly yes, it is hubris to take anything people say at face value.