# Peoples hang ups with science, what gives? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721 "2013-06-23T19:44:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/41 "2013-07-05T12:35:44Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Because a lot of people are fucking idiots. Most people can use an iPhone or drive a car or turn on a television. Very few of them know anything about the technology that makes them work. The people praying in the church don’t need to know anything about meteorology or structural engineering or static electricity. > > Evolution is one of those areas of science where there is no cost in denying it. If people deny the realities of structural engineering, buildings fall down. Prayer does not get a airplane from New York to Los Angeles or put a rocket on the moon. But if someone chooses to not believe in evolution, it’s not like evolution is going to stop working. > I’ve often thought that there is a cap on human advancement because for every Einstein or Bill Gates or Edison, we have to make a million people who not only don’t add much value, but actually put a drain on progress with their dumbassitude. Attitudes like this are one reason some folks don’t trust science. They feel a godless society would strongly favor the elite more educated. Once this group came into power the hostile attitudes as expressed above would become more prevalent. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/42 "2013-07-05T12:39:40Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I agree-science is nothing more than Aristotelian logic. Why do people reject science? Because they do not understand logic-it ought to be taught in grade school. Some people object to teaching critical thinking because it [undermines fixed beliefs and parental authority.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html) > [@](#): > > Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/43 "2013-07-05T14:05:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You have to keep in mind that also the “devastate our lifestyle” point is also exaggerated by the same deniers. > > [The true cost of fossil fuels](http://www.skepticalscience.com/renewable-energy-is-too-expensive.htm) If we had to pay all the externalities for coal, gasoline, how could it not devastate our lifestyle. Would the government lower taxes because they didn’t have to use taxes to fund our adventures in the middle east. We’re all ready seeing efficiency initiative chip away at our lifestyle either directly or by costing more. American’s have worked hard to reach their present lifestyle so some of us don’t take kindly to a scientist in a suit telling us to use compact fluorescents or drive around in tiny clown car. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > One fun example of how many are not aware of the progress made: how the electrical White Zombie drag car leaves gas muscle cars in the dust. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8) I want a car I can haul wood chips in, drive in the snow, and drive to Chicago, Kansas City, St. Louis, etc while refueling in 5 minutes. I don’t care one bit if it can win a drag races. So far even the Tesla doesn’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/44 "2013-07-05T14:27:15Z")
Zombie! Zombie! Zombie! The car, not the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/45 "2013-07-05T14:37:49Z")
What I’ve given up trying to understand are the people who attack science as biased, corrupt and unworthy of analyzing their woo-based beliefs - while citing scientific studies in an attempt to prove their point. Comical hypocrisy or major critical thinking defect, take your pick. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![psikeyhackr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/46 "2013-07-05T17:47:27Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > People pick and choose what they want to believe. If they do this when it comes to their religious beliefs, they will do this when it comes to science too. How many people got their religios beliefs with their MOTHER’S MILK? PSIK ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/47 "2013-07-06T14:10:19Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Attitudes like this are one reason some folks don’t trust science. They feel a godless society would strongly favor the elite more educated. Once this group came into power the hostile attitudes as expressed above would become more prevalent. As well it should. Do you want a society run by scientists, engineers, doctors and people with advanced education, knowledge and training? Or do you want a society run be people who make decisions because they “just know it’s right”? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/48 "2013-07-06T14:11:32Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > People pick and choose what they want to believe. If they do this when it comes to their religious beliefs, they will do this when it comes to science too. The nice thing about science is that it is correct or not correct independent of what people “believe”. ---
**Author:** ![Crambler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@Crambler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crambler)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/49 "2013-07-06T14:42:07Z")
On another message board, now defunct, we had people saying “Science is always changing. God’s word never changes.” Try to tell them that’s the point, but I don’t think they understand. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/50 "2013-07-06T16:09:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The nice thing about science is that it is correct or not correct independent of what people “believe”. We may think it’s nice. Some people think it proves that scientists are fascists. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/51 "2013-07-09T06:00:11Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > As well it should. Do you want a society run by scientists, engineers, doctors and people with advanced education, knowledge and training? Or do you want a society run be people who make decisions because they “just know it’s right”? Neither. I want a society ran by people who maximize the number of people who get to do what they want. I don’t want a society where someone who is smart tells someone who is dumb what they should want. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/52 "2013-07-09T15:08:30Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > If we had to pay all the externalities for coal, gasoline, how could it not devastate our lifestyle. Would the government lower taxes because they didn’t have to use taxes to fund our adventures in the middle east. We’re all ready seeing efficiency initiative chip away at our lifestyle either directly or by costing more. American’s have worked hard to reach their present lifestyle so some of us don’t take kindly to a scientist in a suit telling us to use compact fluorescents or drive around in tiny clown car. As pointed out before, your points do come from the same sources that claim that there is no problem. Scientists, even republican ones like Richard Alley here can tell you that the same objections from powerful lobbies were put to prevent modern civilization to take control of the lack of clean water and sewage control. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/V7bmg65SS20/maxresdefault.jpg "How to Talk to an Ostrich: "We can't Afford Clean Energy"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7bmg65SS20) As Alley reports, roughly 1% of the economy was then used to control that that also included benefits like getting rid of cholera and many other diseases, just about that is also calculated that it will take our current civilization to control our emissions, and to change to clean energy sources. Perhaps what you fear is that many of the people that will get jobs from the change would become liberal, that does not follow, there were new industries that came out the change to control our human waste, and indeed many did not became liberals just because they worked in the industry that resulted from the change. In essence, you have to ask yourself: Why do you have a nice conservative like Joe the Plumber? > [@Mdcastle](#): > > I want a car I can haul wood chips in, drive in the snow, and drive to Chicago, Kansas City, St. Louis, etc while refueling in 5 minutes. I don’t care one bit if it can win a drag races. So far even the Tesla doesn’t do that. An this is said even when the company became profitable now, indeed denial can be very powerful stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/53 "2013-07-09T17:38:01Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Neither. I want a society ran by people who maximize the number of people who get to do what they want. I don’t want a society where someone who is smart tells someone who is dumb what they should want. When doing what you want is irrational in the extreme and out right harmful to others do you really want people doing what they want? Do you want people raising children to be able to recite the Koran from memory and believing the way to paradise is through martyrdom? Before you say no, keep in mind the American version of this is christian indoctrination of children and it goes on every single day. Teaching children not to reason, not to think for themselves. On one hand you have parents doing what they want, on the other you have their victims whos rights are never even considered. Children should have the right to grow up get an education not based on easily falsified nonsense and make their own decisions about religion when they are of age. This is a single example of the kinds of harm going on daily in the world caused by delusional thinking and the freedom to act on those delusions. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/54 "2013-07-09T22:02:02Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > As well it should. Do you want a society run by scientists, engineers, doctors and people with advanced education, knowledge and training? Or do you want a society run be people who make decisions because they “just know it’s right”? I want a society run by scientists, engineers, doctors and people with advanced education, knowledge and training. Who are very careful about using their power to strip people of their freedom to do dumb things. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/55 "2013-07-09T22:42:53Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > I want a society run by scientists, engineers, doctors and people with advanced education, knowledge and training. Who are very careful about using their power to strip people of their freedom to do dumb things. Well, the honor system has never let us down before … ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/56 "2013-07-10T00:52:41Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Well, the honor system has never let us down before … What I’m trying to say, probably awkwardly, is that the freedom to do dumb things is a pretty important one to me. I prefer the smart people to be running things myself but there’s always a blurry line where the imposition of rules prohibiting dumb behavior becomes instead a cessation of freedom. Generally, I’d like my smart chiefs to err on the side of more freedom instead of more prohibitions. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/57 "2013-07-11T13:16:55Z")
> [@Hershele Ostropoler](#): > > Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post > The nice thing about science is that it is correct or not correct independent of what people “believe”. > > We may think it’s nice. Some people think it proves that scientists are fascists. Is it fascist to build concentration camps with gas chambers where all you have to do to escape is to figure out the change on a $5 bill and a penny for a $3.41 latte? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/58 "2013-07-12T00:23:24Z")
This debate seems to involve two separate topics; both labelled “science” -1) the “scientific method” which is the application of logic to scientific questions;e.g. what accounts for the vast age of the earth? -2): the conclusions of scientific reasoning: such as: radiocarbon dating of the “shroud of Turin” indicates that it is at most about 700 years old. If one accepts “magical” explanations for what is observed, there is no need for science or logic at all. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/59 "2013-07-13T02:03:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Is it fascist to build concentration camps with gas chambers where all you have to do to escape is to figure out the change on a $5 bill and a penny for a $3.41 latte? Science is both extremely democratic (in principle) and extremely anti-democratic (roughly corresponding, respectively, to the division **ralph124c** notes). It’s democratic in that a hypothesis that explains the evidence and makes testable predictions that are borne out is a theory, regardless of whether the hypothesizer was a PhD or a 6-year-old. It’s antidemocratic because if something is deemed true, it is treated as true no matter how many people hold the opinion that it isn’t true or don’t want it to be true. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721/60 "2013-07-13T02:26:15Z")
And the anti-democratic bit comes from the results that are observed after experimentation, so: [It works… bitches…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3v2m4_NHhA) -Richard Dawkins, (not original by him but it is an ascended meme.) 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-hang-ups-with-science-what-gives/661721.md?page=4)