# People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777 "2010-02-20T17:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/102 "2010-02-22T19:02:52Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > [URL=“[http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1963768,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1963768,00.html)”] > What do you think? A lot of this has to do with racial sterotypes that most affect Asians and African Americans. Asian women are smart, sexy and sophisticated while Asian men are weak, nerdy and impotent. Black men are strong and virile while black women are loud and pushy. etc. When we have more sexy sophisticated black women on TV going out with a series of white men (or Asian men) and more strong Asian men on TV going out with white women (or Black women), attitudes may shift. As bad as things are today, the plight of the Asian man/Black women in the dating scene is better than it was years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/103 "2010-02-22T19:18:10Z")
People discriminate on all sorts of things when dating. We discriminate on the basis of age, education, social status, culture, preferences, etc. Is it intrinsically wrong to do so? I don’t think so. Part of finding a mate is finding someone with whom you are compatible. When I was dating, race wasn’t really something I considered, I did weigh things like education and age. **Ruminator,** do you think that people seeking a mate shouldn’t discriminate on any basis? ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/104 "2010-02-22T19:26:58Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I’m highlighting a clean distinction between how we legislate \*\*public \*\*and \*\*private \*\*matters. I already understand the distinction. I’m saying that (for debate/discussion purposes), you can’t explain a man-made delineation of discrimination (employment vs romance) by _pointing to another man-made delineation_ (public vs private). Society can reconfigure what is private and make it public. This renders that chain of reasoning moot. > [@](#): > > Yes, but you have not given a good example of a situation that would give the government powers to legislate romances. That’s because I’m playing devil’s advocate and I’m not doing a good job. I don’t believe in legislating romances. However, I can’t come up with a consistent moral framework to reconcile employment vs dating. I gave the “public vs private” distinction some thought, but found holes in that so I’m looking for a better reason. > [@](#): > > Ruminator, do you think that people seeking a mate shouldn’t discriminate on any basis? Personally, I don’t believe in legislation to try to stop mating discrimination. Most of us discriminate and I’ve already admitted do so myself. However, I guess I see **athelas** ’s thread differently. To me, it’s an interesting intellectual exercise. Even though I don’t believe in anti-discrimination laws, I can’t come up with a consistent moral reason that jives with employment discrimination. The “public vs private” argument looks specious to me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/105 "2010-02-22T19:27:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A lot of this has to do with racial sterotypes that most affect Asians and African Americans. Asian women are smart, sexy and sophisticated while Asian men are weak, nerdy and impotent. Black men are strong and virile while black women are loud and pushy. etc. > > When we have more sexy sophisticated black women on TV going out with a series of white men (or Asian men) and more strong Asian men on TV going out with white women (or Black women), attitudes may shift. As bad as things are today, the plight of the Asian man/Black women in the dating scene is better than it was years ago. While I deplore the popular stereotyping of black women as loud and uncouth, and the lack of black female/white male on-screen couplings, it did at least save us an Ahnold/Vanessa Williams love scene in _Eraser_, so it was probably all worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/106 "2010-02-22T19:45:27Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > However, I can’t come up with a consistent moral framework to reconcile employment vs dating. I gave the “public vs private” distinction some thought, but found holes in that so I’m looking for a better reason. How about the complete infeasibility of enforcing “equal opportunity” dating? ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/107 "2010-02-22T19:49:43Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > How about the complete infeasibility of enforcing “equal opportunity” dating? We covered that earlier. We don’t do a good job enforcing employment discrimination and yet we keep the law on the books. Also, we already allow employees to racially discriminate against potential employers. If I apply for a job and find out in the interview that my boss will be a black woman, I can shout out to her face that I’m a racist sexist and I won’t work for her. I won’t face a penalty fine. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/108 "2010-02-22T19:50:42Z")
Well, it’s not _completely_ infeasible. You just file IRS Supplemental Schedule such-and-such, listing the number and race of your sexual partners during the preceding fiscal year, and providing sample pubic hairs for documentary purposes. If you’re an equal-opportunity fucker you get a $1,000.00 tax credit. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/109 "2010-02-22T19:57:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, it’s not _completely_ infeasible. You just file IRS Supplemental Schedule such-and-such, … If you’re an equal-opportunity fucker you get a $1,000.00 tax credit. I prefer imaginative comments like these in this thread. The other “status quo” comments just shut the door on the discussion which (to me) defeats the purpose of the thread. To build on your example, why can’t the govt also force that each person date (dinner & movie, not sex) at least 2 members of different races before a marriage license is granted? (Sort of like the [NFL Rooney Rule](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule).) Other countries already force mandatory 2-year military service. Surely, 2 nights of mandatory interracial dating won’t kill ya. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/110 "2010-02-22T20:02:17Z")
I worry for you. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/111 "2010-02-22T20:14:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I worry for you. You have to understand that all facetious comments (such as the IRS) are noted and filed away for future policy ideas. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/112 "2010-02-22T20:36:25Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > We covered that earlier. We don’t do a good job enforcing employment discrimination and yet we keep the law on the books. But I can explain, at least in theory, how such enforcement can take place wrt hiring and firing without having to dream up an outlandish scenario along the lines of **RNATB’s** post. It’s certainly not difficult to enforce fairlabor practices, but the difficulties come _no where close_ to policing romantic relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/113 "2010-02-22T22:41:50Z")
The question is whether one has to police them or just police commercial operations in the area. You could forbid explicit searching by race or requesting the race of customers for instance, so that you at least have to look at a profile or picture before rejecting someone. Wont solve the world but reduces the categorical elimination a search engine encourages. You could also just do more research on whether internet dating sites overall are increasing interracial relationships or decreasing them. Ie they might be a net good even if it looks like they are assisting/encouraging discrimination, because the overall amount of interaction is actually being increased by them. Or you could do more wider work on breaking down subtler forms of racism by public campaigns on stereotyping or whatever. Or you could just publicise these results a bit more so people are aware of the general issue and think a bit more about what they’re really doing and why. All depends on what your goals are and the importance you place on the issue vs other issues. Otara ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/114 "2010-02-23T19:20:13Z")
Yes it is racism, and sad. In itself, I do not think it likely that it leads to anything like the levels if injustice that most other forms of racism do, but it is surely a factor in perpetuating those other forms of racism. However, you can’t legislate people’s sexual and romantic preferences, and keeping people’s race confidential, or making it impossible to search by race on dating web sites would not achieve anything but to waste people’s time. They would still make the same choices; it would just take them longer to find someone they like. The only way to tackle a ‘problem’ like this is through the arts. If more movies, TV shows and novels depicted inter-racial romances and marriages, and if there was more inter-racial porn (yes, seriously), it would (gradually) come to be seen as much more normal and acceptable, and even desirable, to date outside your race. If it was thought to be an important public policy goal to combat this form of racism, in principle, art and entertainment of this sort could be encouraged by selective government subsidies. [Oh, OK, you got me. Really I am just trying to get the government to subsidize porn. :D] ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/115 "2010-02-23T20:22:42Z")
Like you with the face, I find the idea of dating someone who has no desire to date people of my race to be extremely off-putting. A workplace being forced to hire me? Yeah. I need to eat. But to have people who are supposed to be interested in me for me be forced either to hide their distaste or to overcome it in some way is repulsive. I don’t want to hang out with the racially prejudiced and the narrow-visioned. Someone forced to hire me penalizes them. Someone forced to date me penalizes me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/116 "2010-02-23T20:40:39Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > This is still arbitrary and inconsistent. > > In your example of dating, the Lower Slobovian is _also harmed_ because of the loss of companionship and/or financial security of a lifelong partner. By refusing to to date the Slobovian, you limit his/her opportunity for the intimacy provided by the support of another human being. The Lower Slobovian doesn’t want to be lonely and yet s/he’s being penalized by his ethnicity which s/he can’t control. Piffle. No one is harmed by not being forced to cohabitate with someone who does not even like them. Certainly, no one is financially impaired or denied food or a place to live by such an action. You are just trying to invent a claim that situations that are barely similar are equivocal. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/117 "2010-02-23T22:09:16Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > No one is harmed by not being forced to cohabitate with someone who does not even like them. You really want to make a bold statement that no black women and Asian men think, “if I could get [other race] to date me, my personality could convince them to look past my ethnicity” ? Either you’re ignoring that sentiment or trivializing it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/118 "2010-02-23T22:35:16Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > You really want to make a bold statement that no black women and Asian men think, “if I could get [other race] to date me, my personality could convince them to look past my ethnicity” ? I can’t speak for all black women, but this particular one can’t imagine thinking anything like this. _Look past my ethnicity_? Why would a self-respecting person want to be with someone who thinks their heritage and/or ethnic appearance is a flaw? Most black women I know have better standards than this, and aren’t exactly pining away for an interracial relationship, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/119 "2010-02-23T22:47:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why would a self-respecting person want to be with someone who thinks their heritage and/or ethnic appearance is a flaw? I wouldn’t characterize it as strongly negative as a “flaw” … more like a dismissal from the dating pool. Many white guys who are attracted to Halle Berry or Vanessa Williams would dismiss other black women outright. If being black was a flaw on absolute terms, those same white men would find Halle and Vanessa repulsive. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/120 "2010-02-23T23:04:35Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > I wouldn’t characterize it as strongly negative as a “flaw” … more like a dismissal from the dating pool. So what kind of self-respecting person would want to be with someone who would have otherwise striked them from the dating pool for being of the wrong race? A black woman who is desperately seeking a relationship with a guy who dismisses either black women outright or only the non-Halle Berry types is not going to call herself black in her profile. She’ll call herself Latina, mixed or something else that is safer. This is not a move a self-respecting person would do, however, for obvious reasons. It’s only a matter of time before those kind of lies fall apart. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777/121 "2010-02-23T23:17:37Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > So what kind of self-respecting person would want to be with someone who would have otherwise striked them from the dating pool for being of the wrong race? I would imagine lots of people who don’t have noble standards of “self-respect”. There are lots of folks that are lonely and want companionship and for them, the “self-respect” stuff is overrated. There are husbands out there that know they were the 2nd or 3rd option that their wives “settled” on. We could say, _“how can any self-respecting man enter into a marriage like that?”_ Well, it happens. Go figure. I guess some folks would rather put their pride on the shelf and go hold hands with _somebody_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-mate-preferences-are-racist-do-we-care/529777.md?page=7)