# People's Republic of Tyranny - why bother with the name or show elections? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-republic-of-tyranny-why-bother-with-the-name-or-show-elections/702767 "2014-10-28T15:56:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-republic-of-tyranny-why-bother-with-the-name-or-show-elections/702767/41 "2014-10-30T20:01:27Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Go then. Tell me what, exactly, I am ignorant about. I’m excited to hear. Tell us how much of the 25-point plan the Nazis ever got around to implementing (or even trying to implement once they were in power). ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-republic-of-tyranny-why-bother-with-the-name-or-show-elections/702767/42 "2014-10-30T20:11:49Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Sorry, but I fail to see the argument there. You are simply trying to lump disparate ideologies together in some bucket. > [@](#): > > They set up their central planning long before the war. I said once they went on war-footing. I didn’t say once they went to war. Pay attention. > [@](#): > > My impression is that you’re trying to pass off Nazi ideology as a capitalist-driven system, which is precisely what socialist propaganda tried to do for decades without ever advancing convincing arguments. Aside from the leftover Bismark programs which the Nazis didn’t dismantle, it was a capitalist-driven system (or more precisely, a crony-capitalist cartel system). The only one engaged in propaganda here is you. > [@](#): > > The only thing that even remotely resembles an argument in this context is the fact that in the early 1930s, some entrepreneurs provided funding for the Nazi party, but that’s hardly indicative of the underlying structures. Post-1933 Nazi policies were certainly far from being in line with free enterprise. Go through the NSDAP platform, and point to me all the places where the Nazis actually followed through on it. I’ll start you off: [QUOTE=NSDAP] We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land. [/QUOTE] There was a big ruckus in the early NSDAP about Prussian Junker estates. The Prussian Junkers were seen as reactionaries and exploiters by the early NSDAP. They wanted to seize these estates and redistribute them. Once Hitler consolidated power, all of that was quickly forgotten about. Oh, wait, sorry. I guess that didn’t help your propaganda. > [@](#): > > Go then. Tell me what, exactly, I am ignorant about. I’m excited to hear. I have told you exactly how you are ignorant. You just keep repeating the same stuff over and over. But, if you’re interested, you should check out the book The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich which has got some detailed sections on how the Nazis structured their economy and is a quite easy read (despite being long). ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-republic-of-tyranny-why-bother-with-the-name-or-show-elections/702767/43 "2014-10-30T20:16:07Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Tell us how much of the 25-point plan the Nazis ever got around to implementing (or even trying to implement once they were in power). They certainly made quite an effort to implement points 1, 2 (the Versailles part), 3 (not in the form of colonies, but in the form of _Lebensraum im Osten_), 4, 5, 6, 7 (to th extent that during the war, scarce food supplies were shipped preferentially to Germany as opposed to the occupied territories in the East), 8, 9 (well, no rights for anybody is pretty much “equal” rights), 10 (forced labour). As far as the items from 11 onwards are concerned: “Usury”, i.e. the criticism of lending money for interest, was an important ideological underpinning for anti-Semitism, since this practice was continuously associated with Jews in Nazi propaganda. A lot of enterprises and land holdings were either nationalised or confiscated and sold to others, with proceeds going to the state, which relates to points 12, 13, 16, and 17. Violations of economic planning and rationing were punished harshly, so that’s point 18. Efforts were made to replace Roman law with Germanic law, that’s point 19. _Gleichschaltung_ of the educational system was immense, so there you have point 20. Policies to improve the status of mothers ranked highly in Nazi propaganda - point 21. There’s probably no need to discuss points 22, 23, and 24. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-republic-of-tyranny-why-bother-with-the-name-or-show-elections/702767/44 "2014-10-30T20:23:52Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > They certainly made quite an effort to implement points 1, 2 (the Versailles part), 3 (not in the form of colonies, but in the form of _Lebensraum im Osten_), 4, 5, 6, 7 (to th extent that during the war, scarce food supplies were shipped preferentially to Germany as opposed to the occupied territories in the East), 8, 9 (well, no rights for anybody is pretty much “equal” rights), 10 (forced labour). As far as the items from 11 onwards are concerned: “Usury”, i.e. the criticism of lending money for interest, was an important ideological underpinning for anti-Semitism, since this practice was continuously associated with Jews in Nazi propaganda. A lot of enterprises and land holdings were either nationalised or confiscated and sold to others, with proceeds going to the state, which relates to points 12, 13, 16, and 17. Violations of economic planning and rationing were punished harshly, so that’s point 18. Efforts were made to replace Roman law with Germanic law, that’s point 19. _Gleichschaltung_ of the educational system was immense, so there you have point 20. Policies to improve the status of mothers ranked highly in Nazi propaganda - point 21. There’s probably no need to discuss points 22, 23, and 24. Oh, honestly. Nobody was talking about whether or not they were racist, nationalist or imperialist. We were talking about their plan as regards to socialism. I’m beginning to think you don’t really understand what socialism is. Here’s the wiki definition: > [@](#): > > Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy,[1][2] as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.[3][4] “Social ownership” may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.[5] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. The vast majority of the means of production in the Nazi economy remained in private hands (aside from a couple of weird exceptions, like Volkswagen). It was not socialist by any reasonable definition. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-republic-of-tyranny-why-bother-with-the-name-or-show-elections/702767/45 "2014-10-30T20:33:52Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > A lot of enterprises and land holdings were either nationalised or confiscated and sold to others, with proceeds going to the state I just want to tackle this one, before I go back to work. The Nazis did not systematically seize and redistribute property, which is a characteristic of some socialist states. Nor did they systematically collectivize property, which is a characteristic of most communist states. They seized property from disfavored individuals (political enemies, Jews, etc). That kind of selective confiscation while retaining private ownership of the means of production is exactly the type of thing that goes on in a crony-capitalist state. Some economists characterize this as a form of rent-seeking (although I think that stretches the term rent-seeking a bit). But it ain’t socialist. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-republic-of-tyranny-why-bother-with-the-name-or-show-elections/702767/46 "2014-10-30T21:25:45Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > This is obviously careening out of forum, but before it does, kudos to **Donnerwetter** for “Despocy.” > > Now I’m going to go look it up to see if it’s a real word to anyone else. If not, it is now. Despots rule over despotates. See [The Despotate of Epirus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotate_of_Epirus), for example. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peoples-republic-of-tyranny-why-bother-with-the-name-or-show-elections/702767.md?page=2)