# Per-mile tax **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 22, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764 "2017-03-22T15:23:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/41 "2017-03-23T02:03:11Z")
I drive roughly 100 miles per year on private property. How would this be accounted for? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/42 "2017-03-23T02:08:04Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > Any particular reason it has to be done via GPS as opposed to just annual odometer readings at registration time? Spying on everyone’s whereabouts all the time via GPS is a serious invasion of privacy that goes way beyond the scope of simply collecting taxes. The reason for doing it by tracking rather than odometer is so you don’t pay your state’s mileage tax when out of state. Obviously though it’s going to face privacy hurdles. Even if it’s technically possible to make it secure against abuse in general, getting everyone to believe that and/or making it true absolutely 100% of the time is a different story. On cheating by truck companies that’s not so likely IMO. You can make a system resistant enough to that that typical employees of a trucking co wouldn’t be able to circumvent it. It’s not going to be just winding an analog odometer back. But again if the standard is 100%…though there isn’t 100% compliance with fuel taxes either. Some untaxed fuel finds its way into road vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/43 "2017-03-23T02:13:40Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I drive roughly 100 miles per year on private property. How would this be accounted for? I guess you’d have to suck it up, that’s about $1.00. Maybe $2.00. [Actually, you could probably deduct the miles you were on private roads and sign a form under penalty of perjury] ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/44 "2017-03-23T02:17:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Well, if you can find me a 3BR, 2BA house on a quarter acre, 400 feet from the beach, in Seattle, for $150,000… I hear you. But paying more for your commute is a trade off for saving money on your house. You’re still ahead of the game compared to a house in Seattle, even if you’re taxed on mileage. I’m sympathetic to your main point (cars using less gas shouldn’t be penalized, but incentivized), but I think over time, a gas tax isn’t going to be sufficient. There are other ways to do it, but each one would be “unfair” to someone. A flat renewal fee, for example, would seem unfair to the little old lady who drives only 1,000 miles a year and has to pay the same and someone who uses the roads 10 or 20 times that much. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/45 "2017-03-23T02:19:54Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > Any particular reason it has to be done via GPS as opposed to just annual odometer readings at registration time? Spying on everyone’s whereabouts all the time via GPS is a serious invasion of privacy that goes way beyond the scope of simply collecting taxes. Because, under one of the scenario, it only applies to miles driven in WA. If you live near the border & commute into OR, your OR miles aren’t subject to the WA tax. Another option is to make it time sensitive, so rush hour usage would be 2¢/mile but off-peak times are only 1¢/mile. I agree the GPS tracking of eeverywhere I go is creepy but I’ve long said George Orwell wrote a documentary with only the year wrong in the title. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/46 "2017-03-23T04:51:39Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > Any particular reason it has to be done via GPS as opposed to just annual odometer readings at registration time? Spying on everyone’s whereabouts all the time via GPS is a serious invasion of privacy that goes way beyond the scope of simply collecting taxes. No reason but I suspect that some sort of automated tracking and reporting will become very common. I expect it will be automated billing - just like paying tolls. Tracking is already built-in an being used for mileage discounts for auto insurance. Here is State Farm’s program. It uses GM Onstar, Ford SYNC or your cellphone connected via Bluetooth to a device that reports in via the cell network. > **[Drive Safe & Save™ – Safe Driver Discounts](https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/auto/discounts/drive-safe-save)** > > Save up to 30% on your car insurance with a Drive Safe ＆ Save™; discount at State Farm. Save up to 10% just for signing up. Enroll today. . I wonder how long before they track and bill based on how often you exceed the speed limit, accelerate to hard etc.? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/47 "2017-03-23T04:55:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It would seem a per-gallon tax is a better idea than a per-mile tax. The only thing a per-mile tax seems to address, other than being a general source of revenue, is infrastructure. But infrastructure (road construction and maintenance) is exactly what the gas tax is supposed to pay for - and coming up short. Traffic enforcement is also a big cost IMHO the fair thing to do is to have a tax on fuels to address the environmental cost (CO2, smog, etc), _and_ a per-mile tax to pay for road infrastructure and traffic law enforcement. The per-mile tax should depend on vehicle type and weight, because heavier vehicles cause more wear and tear on the road. It would be even better if the “per-mile” tax is also adjusted according to where and when you drive. It should be more expensive to drive on congested roads during rush hours. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/48 "2017-03-23T06:48:55Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > I wonder how that will work with agricultural vehicles. Like with emissions standards I would guess they will be mostly exempt. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Well, if you can find me a 3BR, 2BA house on a quarter acre, 400 feet from the beach, in Seattle, for $150,000… If river beach counts, you can get that in the Manchester section of Pittsburgh for about $40,000. Of course the house may need some work and the extra land is from a couple houses that burned/fell down but the good news is you can walk to downtown and listen to every football and baseball game from the comfort of your living room. 🙂 (I joke partly but not entirely. One person bought 4 lots, one with a house he could rehab, basically for that reason. In the end the entire thing did come in around $60k.) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/49 "2017-03-23T10:59:54Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > I wonder how that will work with agricultural vehicles. At least in PA, farmers can buy “off road diesel” for their tractors, which is not taxed. Some farmers drive diesel powered personal vehicles, filling up (illegally) on the farm from their big tank. I buy five gallons of gas every few weeks for lawn mowers, weed wackers, snowblower, leaf blower, chainsaws, lawn tractors, etc. No odometers on any of those gas burners. What would stop me from pouring that gasoline into my car once I get the gas can home? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/50 "2017-03-23T11:41:17Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I agree the GPS tracking of eeverywhere I go is creepy but I’ve long said George Orwell wrote a documentary with only the year wrong in the title. You are correct, sir. And Big Brother knew you thought it before you even said it. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/51 "2017-03-23T12:22:03Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > How do you propose to pay for roads then? You could institute a reasonably progressive state income tax, and then pay for road maintenance out of the general fund of state tax dollars. There seems to be this idea that we should (at least more or less) pay for roads based on “usage”, but we don’t do that for other government services. Public schools are mostly financed by property taxes, not some kind of head tax on children. We don’t charge residents of Southern California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas special taxes to pay for the Border Patrol; or residents of coastal states special taxes to pay for the Coast Guard and the Navy; or residents of North Dakota and Maine and Washington state special taxes to pay for the military forces that exist to keep them from being overrun by the savage Canadian hordes. Roads are a public good. Everyone relies on them; even people who don’t drive presumably _eat_. (I live within easy walking distance of a grocery store and a number of restaurants, but it’s not like all that tasty food on the shelves of Publix is “beamed” there using a matter transporter.) Of course income taxes have their own privacy implications; but that ship’s already sailed–the federal government and most state governments are already prying into your financial affairs with income tax returns, and have been for decades. At least the IRS doesn’t want to know every single place you’ve driven to over the course of the last 12 months. And we could still implement gasoline taxes as a kind of “sin tax”, to reduce carbon emissions and dependence on Middle Eastern petroleum. But it’s foolish to make vital infrastructure so dependent on a tax on a specific commodity that we risk not being able to fund it because people are finding objectively _better_ ways to use the roads and bridges, with vehicles that are cleaner, and that make it less necessary for us to keep invading Middle Eastern countries on such a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/52 "2017-03-23T14:35:10Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > At least in PA, farmers can buy “off road diesel” for their tractors, which is not taxed. Some farmers drive diesel powered personal vehicles, filling up (illegally) on the farm from their big tank. > > I buy five gallons of gas every few weeks for lawn mowers, weed wackers, snowblower, leaf blower, chainsaws, lawn tractors, etc. No odometers on any of those gas burners. What would stop me from pouring that gasoline into my car once I get the gas can home? I don’t think it’s the liquid fuel that’s tracking your miles driven. I don’t think that scenario gets around the per-mile tax. And in my neck of the woods, large farm equipment running tax-free diesel does a ton of damage to the roads. Those large tracked tractors tear up the roads and then leave the repair bills to others. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/53 "2017-03-23T14:35:48Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > [Drive Safe & Save™ – Safe Driver Discounts - State Farm®](https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/auto/discounts/drive-safe-save/) > > I wonder how long before they track and bill based on how often you exceed the speed limit, accelerate to hard etc.? I used to participate in that program. It did grade you on speeding, acceleration, hard stops, the times you drive, and so on. I was judged pretty good driver overall, with something like a A- grade. I probably saved $150 a year in this program because it watched how I would drive. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/54 "2017-03-23T15:03:06Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I don’t think it’s the liquid fuel that’s tracking your miles driven. I don’t think that scenario gets around the per-mile tax. > > And in my neck of the woods, large farm equipment running tax-free diesel does a ton of damage to the roads. Those large tracked tractors tear up the roads and then leave the repair bills to others. However, they run a lot more miles off-road (on the farm) than otherwise, so you’ll never be able to tax them at the same per-mile rate as entirely road-bound vehicles. Simply register them differently as “Farm Vehicles” and tax them at a lower rate. This already happens in Nebraska, which maintains a distinction between (for instance) “normal” on-road pickup trucks and farm pickups. The latter are not allowed to engage in non-farm commerce, like a contractor’s pickup truck might be able to. (And if the pickup truck is just some suburbanite’s penis substitute, well, that’s allowed to engage in commerce too if they want to.) ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/55 "2017-03-23T15:14:19Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > However, they run a lot more miles off-road (on the farm) than otherwise, so you’ll never be able to tax them at the same per-mile rate as entirely road-bound vehicles. > > Simply register them differently as “Farm Vehicles” and tax them at a lower rate. This already happens in Nebraska, which maintains a distinction between (for instance) “normal” on-road pickup trucks and farm pickups. The latter are not allowed to engage in non-farm commerce, like a contractor’s pickup truck might be able to. (And if the pickup truck is just some suburbanite’s penis substitute, well, that’s allowed to engage in commerce too if they want to.) How many vehicles can you follow and see with your own eyes the real time, direct damage they are doing to the road? I highly doubt that even if they paid the full fuel tax on every gallon purchased, it wouldn’t compensate for the damage done when they move these large tracked or heavy lugged equipment between fields. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/56 "2017-03-23T15:46:14Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > How many vehicles can you follow and see with your own eyes the real time, direct damage they are doing to the road? > > I highly doubt that even if they paid the full fuel tax on every gallon purchased, it wouldn’t compensate for the damage done when they move these large tracked or heavy lugged equipment between fields. Does that matter? If the political will of the majority of the state legislature supports the farmers, that’s what happens. It’s a political decision. The practical justifications are secondary. Washington, Oregon, or California are probably politically different. My impression is that the urban districts have more weight in their state houses, so the tax structures will probably tax rural interests in greater proportion. Maybe there’ll be no accommodation to the fact that many farm-vehicle miles aren’t on public roads at all. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/57 "2017-03-23T15:57:23Z")
Will the Amish, whose buggies lack odometers, be taxed? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/58 "2017-03-23T16:07:28Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Will the Amish, whose buggies lack odometers, be taxed? Not sure if you are joking or not, but I live where the Amish and Mennonites drive their buggies on the roads. And, justified or not, it bugs me that they pay no registration fees, inspection fees or gasoline taxes to help maintain roads. They are more than glad to use the roads, but I am unaware of any taxes or fees paid to build and maintain the roads they use. Probably an inconsequential gripe, but it’s what I think about when I see them… particularly when I’m stuck behind one trying to figure out when to pass. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/59 "2017-03-23T16:19:45Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Not sure if you are joking or not, Nope, not joking. I drive through Amish areas, and always wonder why they aren’t forced to contribute to road maintenance. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764/60 "2017-03-23T16:40:39Z")
I live in farm country and I’ve not seen any farm vehicles doing any more damage than anyone else to the roads. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-mile-tax/782764.md?page=4)