# Per the Cavaliers owner's letter to fans, how is LeBron James leaving a "cowardly betrayal"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 9, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108 "2010-07-09T16:44:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/21 "2010-07-09T19:15:43Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > As for it being common knowledge that everyone outside of Cleveland has known for years that James was an asshole, do you have a cite for that? If everyone knew it, why didn’t anyone write that, in the 6 weeks of all LeBron all the time, we’ve seen since the NBA finals ended? [From a few days ago](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/07/wizards_fans_were_right_about.html). [From a couple months ago](http://isportsweb.com/2010/05/15/why-i-hate-lebron-james-a-celtics-fans-confession/). [From last November](http://www.thefukerton.com/sports/basketball/if-you-hate-lebron-james-as-much-as-i-do-youll-like-this/). [From last summer](http://youbeenblinded.com/video-lebron-james-doesnt-shake-hands-talk-after-loss/3306). This shit is everywhere. People in Cleveland have had their tongues so far up LeBron’s ass they just haven’t been able to see it until now. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/22 "2010-07-09T19:26:36Z")
[This article](http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2010/07/lebron_react_never_has_being_a.html) states that LeBron didn’t thank the Cav’s fans. Is that true? Or is it an exaggeration? > [@](#): > > Not even because LeBron was so, so cruel to Cleveland, not once thanking the fans who made him into what he was, the fans who have to wonder if their absurd investment in their sports franchises will ever be rewarded. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/23 "2010-07-09T19:49:44Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > [From a few days ago](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/07/wizards_fans_were_right_about.html). > > [From a couple months ago](http://isportsweb.com/2010/05/15/why-i-hate-lebron-james-a-celtics-fans-confession/). > > [From last November](http://www.thefukerton.com/sports/basketball/if-you-hate-lebron-james-as-much-as-i-do-youll-like-this/). > > [From last summer](http://youbeenblinded.com/video-lebron-james-doesnt-shake-hands-talk-after-loss/3306). > > This shit is everywhere. People in Cleveland have had their tongues so far up LeBron’s ass they just haven’t been able to see it until now. Give me a break. The first article is just a bunch of sour grapes from Washington fans after their team lost. The second article is gripes from a Celtics fan about James getting superstar calls, which is rich coming from a Celtics fan because Larry Legend got more than his share of calls too as I recall. Larry, not to mention St. Jordan, did more than his share of griping to the refs too. The third is another one complaining about James getting superstar calls, and the 4th is bitchy nitpicking about the lack of a handshake, IMHO. Being an asshole as a person is a lot different that a superstar bitching about a referee’s calls, IMHO. Last night’s TV travesty shows LeBron is a first rate jerk off the court,which still to my knowledge no one called him before. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/24 "2010-07-09T19:57:58Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > His “best deal,” eh? You mean the one where he takes less money and concedes his position as an NBA alpha dog in order to cavort around South Beach and make more commercials? > > It’s cowardly because: > > -The Cavs gave him a lot while he was there, and was prepared to do virtually anything he wanted to keep him, yet he apparently gave them the cold shoulder for the last month or so. > > -The team didn’t learn of his decision until it was announced on his little TV special. > > -This, after they had fired the coach and GM. > > -Any chance of the Cavs doing something in free agency is pretty much gone now, thanks to LeBron dragging this crap out. > > -Did you see the way he dogged it in the playoffs? Then he leaves, and the fans are supposed to be okay with that? > Screw him. I wish him the worst. _Cowardly_ means “showing disgraceful fear.” How is what James did cowardly? ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/25 "2010-07-09T20:05:04Z")
The main problem with Lebron is not _what_ he did, it was \*how \*he did it. Going for the contract that best fit his needs is one thing. There was nothing in that hour-long self-wank that could not have been done in a 5-min press conference. The rest was a big FU to Cleveland. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/26 "2010-07-09T20:13:29Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Being an asshole as a person is a lot different that a superstar bitching about a referee’s calls, IMHO. Last night’s TV travesty shows LeBron is a first rate jerk off the court,which still to my knowledge no one called him before. You missed the point, or perhaps my wording was not clear. What I meant was, people outside of Cleveland don’t like LeBron. People think he’s a entitled bitch and they have for some time long before last night. I have nothing against the man as a player; I still think he’s a douchebag, though. And he’s a dick [on the court](http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2010/04/lebron_disses_a_chicago_ball_b.html), too. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/27 "2010-07-09T20:14:53Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > The main problem with Lebron is not _what_ he did, it was \*how \*he did it. Going for the contract that best fit his needs is one thing. There was nothing in that hour-long self-wank that could not have been done in a 5-min press conference. The rest was a big FU to Cleveland. This is pretty much my take on it, as someone who doesn’t watch basketball and who never cared one way or the other which team James played for. I’ve always like LeBron James, in a genral non-fan sort of way. He’s clearly a great player, and in interviews he’s always seemed pretty amiable and self-deprecating for a guy who is treated like God wherever he goes. But that TV special last night was one of the biggest ego trips ever, even in the ego-driven world of professional sports. I’m surprised his managers and other handlers didn’t tell him that it might be a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/28 "2010-07-09T20:25:21Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > You missed the point, or perhaps my wording was not clear. What I meant was, people outside of Cleveland don’t like LeBron. People think he’s a entitled bitch and they have for some time long before last night. This is a big overgeneralization. He’s one of the most popular players in the league, including a high rank in jersey sales. That means a lot of people outside of Cleveland like him. Some others hate his guts, which isn’t surprising. But it’s not like LeBron is, say, Barry Bonds- who was protected in San Francisco and mostly despised everywhere else. Maybe that’s where LeBron is headed now but that is not the position he’s occupied up to this point. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/29 "2010-07-09T20:27:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is a big overgeneralization. He’s one of the most popular players in the league, including a high rank in jersey sales. That means a lot of people outside of Cleveland like him. Some others hate his guts, which isn’t surprising. But it’s not like LeBron is, say, Barry Bonds- who was protected in San Francisco and mostly despised everywhere else. Maybe that’s where LeBron is headed now but that is not the position he’s occupied up to this point. Fair enough. Of course he’s not universally loved or hated. However, **zamboniracer** is contending that no one has ever called him out for being a dick before today, and that’s just not true at all. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/30 "2010-07-09T20:34:50Z")
Skald: > [@](#): > > Cowardly means “showing disgraceful fear.” > > How is what James did cowardly? Afraid to fail at being a Jordan-like cornerstone for building a champion in Cleveland, so he’s going to the safety of a team that already has some other superstars that can shoulder some of the burden of winning/blame for losing, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/31 "2010-07-09T20:49:53Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Skald: > > Afraid to fail at being a Jordan-like cornerstone for building a champion in Cleveland, so he’s going to the safety of a team that already has some other superstars that can shoulder some of the burden of winning/blame for losing, perhaps? That doesn’t strike me as cowardly. Mightn’t he simply have assessed the situation, decided that Cleveland was unlikely to provide him with what he needed to become a champion, and gone elsewhere? If James had suffered a precipitous decline in his skills this season, so that he was no longer anywhere near Jordan level in value, would you have wanted the Cavaliers to keep him? Bear in mind that I don’t follow sports and am not inclined to defend James for his own sake. It’s just that the word _cowardly_ struck me as odd in this context. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/32 "2010-07-09T21:00:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > _Cowardly_ means “showing disgraceful fear.” > > How is what James did cowardly? He didn’t tell his erstwhile owner or teammates of his decision, face to face. He let them sit with the rest of the country and wait for his little spectacle-show. He let his agent call the team owner an hour before the ESPN special, which was the only communication he had with the Cavs (other than their presentation to him, I suppose) since the end of the season. I don’t know about you, but every time I’ve quit a job for another, I’ve given my resignation letter to the boss in person, and had a frank discussion with the manager if wanted. Letting your agent do _all_ of your talking for you seems to smack of disgraceful fear to me. \ ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/33 "2010-07-09T21:10:03Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Fair enough. > > Of course he’s not universally loved or hated. However, **zamboniracer** is contending that no one has ever called him out for being a dick before today, and that’s just not true at all. That’s not what I wrote, quoting myself: > [@](#): > > As for it being common knowledge that everyone outside of Cleveland has known for years that James was an asshole, do you have a cite for that? If everyone knew it, why didn’t anyone write that, in the 6 weeks of all LeBron all the time, we’ve seen since the NBA finals ended? See the difference? What I successfully rebutted was the assertion that everyone outside of Cleveland already knew he was an asshole. You’re using the strawman argument, putting words in my mouth, falsely saying that I thought that no one outside of C-Town had ever criticized James before. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/34 "2010-07-09T21:14:01Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > He didn’t tell his erstwhile owner or teammates of his decision, face to face. He let them sit with the rest of the country and wait for his little spectacle-show. He let his agent call the team owner an hour before the ESPN special, which was the only communication he had with the Cavs (other than their presentation to him, I suppose) since the end of the season. > I don’t know about you, but every time I’ve quit a job for another, I’ve given my resignation letter to the boss in person, and had a frank discussion with the manager if wanted. Letting your agent do _all_ of your talking for you seems to smack of disgraceful fear to me. \ Ah. I did not know that part. I still wouldn’t quite call that cowardly, though. More assholish. But I don’t know what’s customary for athletes. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/35 "2010-07-09T21:14:23Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > _Cowardly_ means “showing disgraceful fear.” > > How is what James did cowardly? Because all the hype around him has been that he’s the heir to Jordan’s throne, that he was a transcendent player, that he was…well, The King. Now it turns out that not only can he not handle the pressure of being the chosen one, he’s willing to take less money to get out from under the pressure of those expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/36 "2010-07-09T21:33:41Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Because all the hype around him has been that he’s the heir to Jordan’s throne, that he was a transcendent player, that he was…well, The King. > > Now it turns out that not only can he not handle the pressure of being the chosen one, he’s willing to take less money to get out from under the pressure of those expectations. Because he chose to leave a team which could not meet his desires for one that could? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/37 "2010-07-09T21:37:55Z")
> [@Who\_me\_1](#): > > He’s a basketball player. He went where he wanted to go, and he’s taking less money to play there. He wants a championship and Cleveland’s never put a strong enough team around him to get one. **Now he’s got team mates he can lean on when he needs to**. Yeah, all three of them. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/38 "2010-07-09T21:39:09Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Because he chose to leave a team which could not meet his desires for one that could? :dubious: :dubious: yourself. It isn’t about his “desires.” His desires are cheap and shallow. He wants to pal around with his buddies Wade and Bosh, hang out at the beach, win some titles, and have all the media attention that goes with that. Fine. But all the marketing, all the hype, suggested something else. It suggested someone who revered Michael Jordan, who respected the game, who wanted to be THE MAN. Not a piece. THE MAN. But he couldn’t handle the criticism from not getting it done. If it was never going to happen in Cleveland (a view I don’t share), then Chicago would have been a logical destination. Or New York. Going to Miami was a copout. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/39 "2010-07-09T21:46:35Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > :dubious: yourself. It isn’t about his “desires.” His desires are cheap and shallow. He wants to pal around with his buddies Wade and Bosh, hang out at the beach, win some titles, and have all the media attention that goes with that. > > Fine. > > But all the marketing, all the hype, suggested something else. It suggested someone who revered Michael Jordan, who respected the game, who wanted to be THE MAN. Not a piece. THE MAN. But he couldn’t handle the criticism from not getting it done. If it was never going to happen in Cleveland (a view I don’t share), then Chicago would have been a logical destination. Or New York. > > Going to Miami was a copout. Why? I’m not being snarkish. I thought it was a salary cap deal. Anyway, why should James pursue anything other than what is best for him? Would the team owner have retained him at the end of his contract if he had suffered a huge decline in skill this year? And why must he revere Jordan? Did Jordan die for his sins? Kill the man who killed James’ father? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/40 "2010-07-09T21:58:41Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > But all the marketing, all the hype, suggested something else. He’s benefited a great deal from that hype and he’s done his part to encourage it, but I think this suggests he just invented all of it himself, and that’s just not true. The hype started when he was in high school because as a player, he really is that good. I’m not sure people are entitled to be this disappointed in him for not living up to an expectation they helped create. You’re right that he’s not Jordan. Jordan wanted to win, wanted to be the best, and wanted to kill everyone in his way so there could be no dispute about his greatness. There are people out there who noticed that’s not who LeBron is. Maybe not everybody got that, and certainly nobody has toned down the shoe advertisements to reflect a lack of killer instinct or a desire to do it on his own. But not living up to fan expectations and publicity does not make him a coward. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108.md?page=3)