# Per the Cavaliers owner's letter to fans, how is LeBron James leaving a "cowardly betrayal"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 9, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108 "2010-07-09T16:44:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/61 "2010-07-12T15:28:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > But as I understand it, the ad revenues for this special went to the Boys & Girls Club, which I would call a reasonably worthy charity. I don’t know that ALL the revenues went there, but assuming they did, ESPN did not hugely benefit. No? Cleveland is considered one of the poorest cities in the USA, and Greenwich CT one of the wealthiest, and yet James (or his people) filmed at the Boys & Girls Club of Greenwich CT. Does that make any sense to anybody? With all due respect, there are a lot more worthy charities, I think, than the Boys & Girls Club of Greenwich CT. Additionally, if James had donated his own money to the charity that would be laudable. Donating other people’s money, such as ESPN’s, doesn’t impress me much. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/62 "2010-07-12T16:24:26Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Mildly amusing, however… > > A guy grows up and learns how the throw a ball through a hoop, and he gets paid tens of millions of dollars to do this, by a guy who probably has hundreds of millions of dollars, and then the first guy gets a one-hour special on national television to tell a waiting nation whose tens of millions of dollars he’s going to accept next year, and the second guy throws a hissy fit about it, and writes a letter about it, and people on the internet mock him for his choice of font… > > …and CNN writes a fucking article about it!? > > Sweet zombie Cronkite, is this what passes for news these days? Have we truly sunk so low? Christ, we’re gazing so far up our own navels it’s gonna take a pickaxe, a compass, and night goggles to find our way back out again. Whatever. Sports has been part of the news for decades. That ship sailed, returned, then sailed again years ago. And this particular article isn’t even on CNN’s front page. The only mentions of LeBron are on the bottom quarter, way underneath the nice big headlines and photos from the Somalia bombing and ongoing relief efforts in Haiti. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/63 "2010-07-12T17:34:46Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Cleveland is considered one of the poorest cities in the USA, and Greenwich CT one of the wealthiest, and yet James (or his people) filmed at the Boys & Girls Club of Greenwich CT. Does that make any sense to anybody? ESPN’s headquarters is just an hour from there. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/64 "2010-07-12T18:34:23Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Whatever. Sports has been part of the news for decades. That ship sailed, returned, then sailed again years ago. And this particular article isn’t even on CNN’s front page. The only mentions of LeBron are on the bottom quarter, way underneath the nice big headlines and photos from the Somalia bombing and ongoing relief efforts in Haiti. Actually, contrary to what Robot Arm said, the original article was from the Boston Globe and CNN just linked to it. ETA: Yup. [http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/2010/07/the\_cavs\_owners.html](http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/2010/07/the_cavs_owners.html) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/65 "2010-07-12T19:31:49Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > James (or his people) filmed at the Boys & Girls Club of Greenwich CT. Does that make any sense to anybody? It does if they were trying to fool people into thinking the Knicks were his choice. Their training camp is nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/66 "2010-07-12T19:44:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > ESPN’s headquarters is just an hour from there. There are plenty of places within an hour from ESPN headquarters that _aren’t_ in one of the wealthiest cities in America. Including–and I am just thinking out loud here– **ESPN headquarters**. LeBron’s agent team could have easily asked ESPN to host the whole shebang at Bristol, but instead they wanted to pull some “all for the kids and char-i-dee” thing. Which would have been great, but why hold it in Greenwich? Seemed like a strange thing to me. Anyway, if LeBron had wanted to make the decision seem like it was still up in the air from the first place, Bristol would have been the place to go. As an aside, I happened to be flipping through the channels and turned it to ESPN just as LeBron made his announcement. Saved myself 59:30 of viewing time. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/67 "2010-07-12T19:48:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It does if they were trying to fool people into thinking the Knicks were his choice. Their training camp is nearby. And that’s a worthwhile goal, why? Was LeBron’s goal to go out of his way to piss off Knicks’ fans as well as Cavs’ fans? LeBron was going to be in NYC for another NBA player’s wedding and was already in the area. The boys girls club were cynically used as a backdrop. To me, saying “I’m going to do a rotten thing, but a charity will make some money off it”, doesn’t mean that the thing done wasn’t still rotten. Money isn’t everything, after all. That same argument cuts against the apologists who say it was “just business.” Dumping a steaming pile of excrement on your ex-customers isn’t good business, even if they are “just” Cleveland fans. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/68 "2010-07-12T23:57:36Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > That same argument cuts against the apologists who say it was “just business.” Dumping a steaming pile of excrement on your ex-customers isn’t good business, even if they are “just” Cleveland fans. Thx for that. They don’t call it the “Cleveland Steamer” for naught. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/69 "2010-07-13T03:59:52Z")
Lebron is a douche for doing it the way he did. He didn’t even thank Cleveland for the 7 years during his hourlong murder of sports in that city. I fully and totally support what Gilbert said. So what if the guy’s older and has hundreds of millions of dollars? He’s not allowed to call out assholes when he sees it? Everywhere I read, it’s pretty much the consensus that the way Lebron had his TV special was cruel and dickish, so Gilbert’s response was perfect and proper. It’s ok to respond to that with anger What kind of sissy owner gets left at the alter and releases some meek, PC statement about disappointment? The worst owner/GM combo in the league, that’s who, the Knicks’ James Dolan, who called the decision “disappointing” Disappointing? Disappointing is when you lose a game on a lucky shot or your star goes down with a season-ending injury. Lebron MURDERED basketball in Cleveland and he did it in the worst way possible. If I were a player, I wouldn’t want to play for Dolan. I would, after Gilbert’s letter, want to play for the Cavs moreso after the owner showed me he would stand up for me if I’m on his team. Unlike others around the net that I’ve read, I don’t consider Gilbert to be unhinged. I consider his response the only proper one after he was stabbed in the face on TV for an hour. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/70 "2010-07-13T04:33:34Z")
I don’t think Gilbert was unhinged. I do think his comments were cynical and hypocritical since he never had any public complaints about LeBron’s attitude or behavior when he was on the team and would have happily paid him another $120 million to stay with the team if that had been LeBron’s choice. LeBron made Dan Gilbert a fuckton of money over the last few years - much more than LeBron made for himself. Without him owning the Cavaliers wouldn’t have been all that attractive a proposition for Gilbert in the first place. LeBron could not have been more tone deaf in his handling of this situation in terms of the TV special and not informing the Cavs of his decision in a more upfront way. I don’t agree with the “cowardly betrayal” thing but he did fail on his promise to bring Cleveland a championship, and I believe he’d said in the past that he would be a failure if he didn’t do that. I also think it’s worth noting that Cleveland could have put a better team about him if he’d committed to staying beyond 2010 instead of always leaving the door open. They might’ve made some smarter or less desperate trades and acquisitions. But that said, Gilbert is trying to avoid blame for anything that had to do with LeBron leaving: the failure to hire the right coach or GM, overpaying for players like Ben Wallace while never getting LeBron a legit sidekick, and so on. Of course even if he’d done that, he might’ve lost LeBron anyway. But who knows. In any case Gilbert’s comments were no more spontaneous than LeBron’s and I hope he enjoys the $100,000 fine David Stern just hit him with. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/71 "2010-07-13T05:01:12Z")
> **[Cleveland Cavaliers Wall Decor](https://fathead.com/collections/cleveland-cavaliers)** > > Rise up Cavs Nation! Shop officially licensed Cleveland Cavaliers wall decals and decor at Fathead. Shop now and enjoy free shipping on orders over $150! I haven’t seen that posted in this thread. Kind of goes with the letter. Gilbert owns Fathead and Benedict Arnold was born in 1741. Kind of a subtle long way to go for a joke/slam. But, at the same time, looking at the number of blogs it was posted on it kind of made for a good viral ad for the company. Here’s something I don’t understand about this and you NBA guys can open my eyes a bit. Cleveland had the most wins in the NBA this season. Lebron got hurt in the playoffs and was unable to do his best against Boston and Cleveland lost the series. So, it seems like the Cavs had a good chance to go to the finals if it weren’t for the injury. Now, I have seen a number of people say Gilbert didn’t put any players around Lebron and that is why they were always unable to win. Does this mean he is so head and shoulders above the rest of the league that he was able to carry a mediocre team to the best record in the NBA? Is he that much better than Kobe? Or could Bryant do the same thing in Cleveland and Cleveland’s division has inferior competition which makes for easier victories. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/72 "2010-07-13T05:16:01Z")
> [@pricciar](#): > > Gilbert owns Fathead and Benedict Arnold was born in 1741. Kind of a subtle long way to go for a joke/slam. But, at the same time, looking at the number of blogs it was posted on it kind of made for a good viral ad for the company. And sell some extra merchandise. > [@](#): > > Now, I have seen a number of people say Gilbert didn’t put any players around Lebron and that is why they were always unable to win. Does this mean he is so head and shoulders above the rest of the league that he was able to carry a mediocre team to the best record in the NBA? They did put some players around LeBron, it just was not a good enough supporting cast to win a title. I don’t think the parts cohered, I think they lacked a second star. Look at who was around Kobe and who was around LeBron. I also think Mike Brown slowed them down too much on offense. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/73 "2010-07-13T13:32:25Z")
> [@pricciar](#): > > Here’s something I don’t understand about this and you NBA guys can open my eyes a bit. > Cleveland had the most wins in the NBA this season. Lebron got hurt in the playoffs and was unable to do his best against Boston and Cleveland lost the series. > So, it seems like the Cavs had a good chance to go to the finals if it weren’t for the injury. > Now, I have seen a number of people say Gilbert didn’t put any players around Lebron and that is why they were always unable to win. Does this mean he is so head and shoulders above the rest of the league that he was able to carry a mediocre team to the best record in the NBA? Is he that much better than Kobe? Or could Bryant do the same thing in Cleveland and Cleveland’s division has inferior competition which makes for easier victories. The people who say the Cavs didn’t have anyone besides LeBron are greatly overstating the case. Cavs management tried hard to get players to complement James but their moves didn’t work out. For the 2009-10 season they obtained Shaq O’Neal (who was on his last legs, but was thought to be the missing piece to stand against Dwight Howard, who’d beaten Cleveland in the '09 playoffs), Antawn Jamison, a hi scorer from the Wizards, and Anthony Parker, who was thought to be a guard. All 3 of them were disappointing. James is great and is about the same level of player as Bryant. Take away Odom and Gasol and Bryant’s Lakers wouldn’t win the title. You’ve got to have at least 2 great players at their peak (or close to it) to win an NBA championship. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/74 "2010-07-13T17:26:34Z")
> [@pricciar](#): > > Here’s something I don’t understand about this and you NBA guys can open my eyes a bit. > Cleveland had the most wins in the NBA this season. Lebron got hurt in the playoffs and was unable to do his best against Boston and Cleveland lost the series. > So, it seems like the Cavs had a good chance to go to the finals if it weren’t for the injury. > Now, I have seen a number of people say Gilbert didn’t put any players around Lebron and that is why they were always unable to win. Does this mean he is so head and shoulders above the rest of the league that he was able to carry a mediocre team to the best record in the NBA? Is he that much better than Kobe? Or could Bryant do the same thing in Cleveland and Cleveland’s division has inferior competition which makes for easier victories. Depending on who you talk to, Lebron is either light-years ahead of Kobe or about the same. He did take a bad team out of the weak East in 2007, I’ll give him that. And he’s physically more explosive and stronger than Kobe is. The main difference between their games is that Kobe wants to do everything himself and Lebron is more content to share the ball, given how much assists he gets. Also, because he’s younger and plays a different position, he’s more in position to grab rebounds, which is why he has so much triple-doubles. But Cleveland’s a classic case of a team who excels in the regular season and wilts in the playoffs. Other than 2007, they’ve been pretty convincingly bounced out of the playoffs the last few years by teams who are considered more well-rounded and mentally tougher. It’s not a secret that intensity and defense goes up in the playoffs, and if you’ve got one main scorer and distributer, if he has a bad game then it’s game over Look at game 7. Kobe had a bad game, but Artest stepped up, Fisher knocked in a big 3, and Pau was great as usual. Cleveland can’t weather a 7 game series like that in the playoffs expecting Lebron to be good every night. During the regular season when you’re facing more mediocre competition, you get more rest, and teams aren’t as locked into defending you as much as when you have to play them at least 4 times in a row, Lebron’s able to lead his Cavs to a great record. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/75 "2010-07-13T18:05:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In any case Gilbert’s comments were no more spontaneous than LeBron’s and I hope he enjoys the $100,000 fine David Stern just hit him with. Gotta love David Stern. In addition to fining Gilbert 100 large, he also questioned his league’s biggest commodity’s motives in putting on the one-hour special (“ill-conceived”) and even took a swipe at Jesse Jackson (“However well-meaning Jesse may be in the premise on this one, he is…mistaken”). _Nobody fucks with David Stern_. He’s going to put that message out there once more, just in case you all forgot. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/76 "2010-07-14T01:53:57Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Gotta love David Stern. In addition to fining Gilbert 100 large, he also questioned his league’s biggest commodity’s motives in putting on the one-hour special (“ill-conceived”) and even took a swipe at Jesse Jackson (“However well-meaning Jesse may be in the premise on this one, he is…mistaken”). > > _Nobody fucks with David Stern_. He’s going to put that message out there once more, just in case you all forgot. Commissioner Stern is a paper tiger. Let’s see him fine James that amount. Gilbert will pay the fine out of petty cash. He still hasn’t satisfactorily explained how the Tim Donaghy scandal happened on his watch. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/77 "2010-07-14T02:08:34Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Commissioner Stern is a paper tiger. Tell that to the players union. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/78 "2010-07-14T02:43:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Tell that to the players union. Tell me, percentage-wise, how much has the average player salary increased since since Stern’s reign began? A million percent? The union’s got no beef with him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/79 "2010-07-14T03:29:25Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Tell me, percentage-wise, how much has the average player salary increased since since Stern’s reign began? A million percent? The union’s got no beef with him. If the union had no beef with him we wouldn’t be discussing a lockout. No question the players are getting rich. Still the consensus is that for Stern’s 30 years as commissioner, he has consistently kicked the ass of the players’ union on behalf of the owners. The players are making much more money but so are the people who own the teams. The bottom line from what I can see is that before the '98-'99 lockout, there were no restrictions on player salaries. [Now there are](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1014974/index.htm). And after the upcoming dispute (or lockout), there will be greater restrictions on salaries. [Here’s a little about that.](http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-labortalks020610) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108/80 "2010-07-14T04:54:57Z")
Ah, once again, pro-sports and egos come to the forefront! James’s way of departing reminds me of Marion Hossa’s comments when he departed Pittsburgh for the Detroit Red Wings. (Despite the fact that the contract he was offered with Detroit was inferior to the one that Pittsburgh had offered) He basically dissed the Penguins, saying he had a much better chance of winning the Stanley Cup in Detroit\*. In both cases, I think it’s the WAY James and Hossa left, not that they left. (Don’t shit on your former team and/or your fans. Although Hossa wasn’t THAT much of an asshat. If you feel you’re better off on another team, that’s one thing – but don’t be a dick when you do leave.) However, Gilbert is a fucking sore loser and a moron to boot. (And I don’t recall Mario Lemieux acting like that when Hossa left) Then again, I can’t imagine anyone wanting to stay in _Cleveland_. 😉 \*And I think we all saw how THAT worked out for him! Of course, he did win this year with Chicago, but the guy should have kept his damned mouth shut. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/per-the-cavaliers-owners-letter-to-fans-how-is-lebron-james-leaving-a-cowardly-betrayal/546108.md?page=5)