# Perception of NOI/"Black Muslims" in Islamic world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 7, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662 "2003-08-07T20:21:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![toque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9e8a1a/32.png) [@toque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toque)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/1 "2003-08-07T20:21:44Z")
I should have thought to ask this question before Collounsbury disappeared, hopefully somebody else can help me. I’m sure the Nation of Islam and its’ offshoots are extremely obscure outside of the U.S., but is there any official line or consensus among Moslem scholars? Is it regarded as a valid expression of Islam? An heresy? An American cultural curiosity? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/2 "2003-08-07T20:54:38Z")
He already responded. He said that they’re as “Islamic as Baptists.” The search engine is going very slow right now, but if you do a search on “Baptists” and his name, you’ll get that thread–although I’m sure he made the same points at other times. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/3 "2003-08-07T20:56:51Z")
And he also made the point that internationally, they are not considered “real” Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![toque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9e8a1a/32.png) [@toque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toque)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/4 "2003-08-07T22:49:39Z")
Thanks, Earl. I found this vituperative pit thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=3299445#post3299445](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=3299445#post3299445), if anyone wants to wade through it. Can anyone answer my question directly? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/5 "2003-08-07T23:00:32Z")
It’s a heresy/non-Muslim American cultural curoisty to most Muslims, NoI members as non-Muslims aren’t allowed into Mecca. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/6 "2003-08-07T23:12:28Z")
In **GQ** , we’ve discussed this in [Islam sects](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148722) and in **GD** we had this exchange in [Differences between Nation of Islam and mainstream Islam?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185493) and [What defines Islam (Nation of Islam and other non-mainstream groups)?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177909) and [Nation Of Islam](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141085) and, after **Coll** ’s “Baptist” reply to **december** in **GD** , we got a **Pit** thread where we hashed it out some more: [Collounsbury/Jack Chick](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178184). ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/7 "2003-08-08T00:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > \*\*It’s a heresy/non-Muslim American cultural curoisty to most Muslims, NoI members as non-Muslims aren’t allowed into Mecca. \*\* Why was Malik Shabazz (aka Malcolm X) allowed into Mecca? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/8 "2003-08-08T00:39:41Z")
From the second I provided: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by **Monty** _ > > After all, Malcom X was a member of NoI when he made the Pilgrammage, wasn’t he? > > No, he had a recently quit. He broke wqith the NOI in March, 1964 and went on pilrimage in April. It might be said he was more in a transitional phase at that point. He switched to orthodox Islam shortly thereafter. > > However I do believe Louis Farrakhan has been allowed to make the Hajj to Mecca on multiple occasions. > > - Tamerlane I don’t recall if I have seen the Louis Farrakhan issue resolved on these boards, although I suspect that a search using “farrakhan AND mecca” would turn up the information. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/9 "2003-08-08T00:43:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AcidKid \* > \*\*Why was Malik Shabazz (aka Malcolm X) allowed into Mecca? \*\* Actually I may be incorrect about this, as I can’t find another source for this (the claim appeared on British TV during the recent refusal to allow Farrakhan in). ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/10 "2003-08-08T01:15:58Z")
[Malcolm X Timeline](http://www.brothermalcolm.net/mxtimeline.html) He had been kicked out of the NOI when he went to Mecca (though he probably didn’t mind since he had been gradually losing faith in Elijah Muhammad anyway) AND he travelled under an assumed name. Slightly OT, but an interesting related link: [FOIA FBI files on Elijah Muhammad](http://foia.fbi.gov/muhammad.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perception-of-noi-black-muslims-in-islamic-world/193662/11 "2003-08-08T01:41:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*In **GQ** , we’ve discussed this in [Islam sects](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148722) and in **GD** we had this exchange in [Differences between Nation of Islam and mainstream Islam?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185493) and [What defines Islam (Nation of Islam and other non-mainstream groups)?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177909) and [Nation Of Islam](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141085) and, after **Coll** ’s “Baptist” reply to **december** in **GD** , we got a **Pit** thread where we hashed it out some more: [Collounsbury/Jack Chick](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178184). \*\* We also had a discussion in GQ (started by myself) about the founder of the NoI, W. D. Fard, whose name was mispelt “W. T. Fard” in the title.