# Perfect attendance award **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795 "2008-01-16T22:36:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/21 "2008-01-17T01:24:12Z")
I’m enjoying this thread immensely because I recently quit my job as a teacher. It was largely Mickey Mouse bullshit, as explained in the OP, that was my impetus to depart the profession. That and the rather obnoxious tone many administrators seem to have adopted in these days of No Child Left Behind. I don’t expect to work surrounded by endless heaps of office supplies, or without oversight by administrators. But teachers shouldn’t have to purchase pencils for their students, and I shouldn’t have to justify every decision I make to some idiot with a clipboard who knows little or nothing about my subject area. Oh, and young teachers are leaving the field in droves, while the boomers are retiring. Best of luck to my former profession, and buh-by. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/22 "2008-01-17T01:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=Zambini57] Well, it’s your call, but if it had been me, I would have shelled out the 6 bucks for the file thing, and also paid for the toner. You have to decide which is more worthwhile, fretting and steaming for months or just paying out of pocket and problem solved. Which is worth more, your stress, or the money? Yeah, I know we all hate our jobs, and we are not going to put forth one iota of effort, (or money) if the PTB are supposed to foot the bill. It’s the whole “principle” thing, right? You shouldn’t have to do it, it’s not your job, so why go the extra mile? Even if the $30 bucks you may have forked over for file thing and toner might give you some restfull nights. In my job, working on airliners, we buy our own tools. We know what we need, and so we buy it, because it makes our lives easier. We don’t write letters and bitch about how we need this or that. [/QUOTE] I’m with you on general principle - I teach in a number of schools, and I certainly provide a lot of stuff at my own cost. Yes, if I spent ages arguing the case, I could have individual schools pay for it, and copy stuff for me, etc etc, but I value my time more than that. But if its got to the point that there is not a functioning printer available, then that can only be described as a serious inadequacy which is preventing staff from doing their jobs, and also acts to prevent the school’s computer equipment being used effectively as a teaching tool. (And toner isn’t exactly a small expense, either.) [QUOTE=Rubystreak] Do you have any idea how many tissues and pencils 100 7th graders go through? It’s not like the number you need for your house. I give out about 20 pencils A DAY, no kidding. If you want to send me a check for those, if it’s really no big deal, I’ll tell you where to send it. Put your money where your mouth is, or shut up. [/QUOTE] I was just talking about this very thing today, with a very experienced teacher. The advice? Spend a few quid, have your name printed on some labels, using the most colourful glittery paper possible, and stick them on every pencil. Brightness and bling and general magpie-appeal is essential, but suddenly they’ll be very much YOUR pencils. I know I’m going to try it out! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/23 "2008-01-17T01:48:47Z")
There are times when I am very happy that we purchase supplies by department, and that the department chair’s room is right next to mine, and he’s a buddy. I have quite a cabinet full of things useful, so if and when the situation changes (like next year, because Steve’s retireing) I have a cushion. I figured it out once. I generally spend twice my extra stipends (debate coach, Academic Decathlon coach) on supplies over the course of a year. One year I told all my AP students they could get 10 points extra credit if they brought in a box of tissue, one per student only. I got enough tissue to last 5 years from students who couldn’t do math. (There were over 1000 points possible that semester.) But it gets wearing when they expect you to do without what they require you to use. This year our district has fallen in love with Data Director. It’s a useful tool, but they cheaped out on the equipment, so now we are expected to use a single laser printer to print all answer sheets, and a single scanner to record the answers, which gets every third one wrong in tests, which means you have to hand enter the whole test, which you also have to do if a student leaves an answer blank. Screw it. I told the district they can shove it until they either hire somebody to do all the copying, printing and scanning, or they fork over the bucks to get decent equipment. There is something to be said for having 20 years seniority and knowing where the bodies are buried. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/24 "2008-01-17T01:55:58Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] I figured it out once. I generally spend twice my extra stipends (debate coach, Academic Decathlon coach) [/QUOTE] [Total aside] I knew you did debate–do you do AcDec (or AcaDeca or whatever you crazy CA people call it) too? I didn’t know that. We have regionals on Friday. I am a mess.[/total aside] And yes, AcDec is a net loss just from all the food. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/25 "2008-01-17T02:13:30Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] I’m with you on general principle - I teach in a number of schools, and I certainly provide a lot of stuff at my own cost. Yes, if I spent ages arguing the case, I could have individual schools pay for it, and copy stuff for me, etc etc, but I value my time more than that. [/QUOTE] I think most teachers do. **Zambini** ’s snark notwithstanding, I do buy most of my own stuff for the exact reason he stated: I can’t be bothered to wrestle with the admin all the time. But those things add up, and teaching is not exactly a lucrative profession. Plus I wouldn’t even NEED to make so many copies if the school got the students the stupid books on time. It’s not just about a few random office supplies. Those small problems are usually indicative of bigger ones. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/26 "2008-01-17T02:19:31Z")
[QUOTE=Zambini57] Tissues or pencils? My God! At Kroger’s, you can get a 20 pack of pencils and a years supply of tissue for about $2.95. Oh, but that’s right. Why should you have to pay? Much better to fill out forms, waste time and stress out. [/QUOTE] Speaking as somebody with a fair amount of Kroger stock, you’re a fucking douchnozzle. I’ve worked for public agencies and private companies, Fortune-25-sized large and small. Every. Single. One. of them paid for office supplies, at minimum. The better ones did things like subsidize my parking and hand me an Amex for the occasional unexpected airfare or an extra night at a hotel, no questions asked. I’m a mid-level IT manager with 5 years of experience in the industry, working at a small company in a mid-sized Midwestern city. I make more than a local public school teacher with 25 years of experience and a doctorate. If my employer asked me to pay for my own cell phone, which they’d then demand I use for work related purposes, I’d seriously consider walking out the door. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/27 "2008-01-17T02:20:12Z")
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee] It’s not just about a few random office supplies. Those small problems are usually indicative of bigger ones. [/QUOTE] I could not agree more. When I go to a school for the first time, first appearances matter, just as they do when you meet a person. If a person (or a school) smiles at you, you know you’re going to have a good time. And the smile come, or fails to come, not from teachers but from office staff, from administrators, from people you happen to meet in the corridors. These simple interactions tell you _so much_ about how the staff of the school (not just the teaching staff) work together efficiently. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/28 "2008-01-17T02:20:44Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] copy stuff for me, etc etc, but I value my time more than that. [/quote] If I do 15,000 copies a year, should I have to pay for that? It seems like it would run into a lot of money. Also, going to Kinko’s and placing an order is not a chore I can add to my day. We have plenty of copier paper, it’s just that the damn things break all the time. > [@](#): > > I was just talking about this very thing today, with a very experienced teacher. The advice? Spend a few quid, have your name printed on some labels, using the most colourful glittery paper possible, and stick them on every pencil. Brightness and bling and general magpie-appeal is essential, but suddenly they’ll be very much YOUR pencils. > > I know I’m going to try it out! You know, I just give them away. Is that stupid of me? I figure, kid needs a pencil, here ya go. Maybe I should ask for them back, but it seems pointless to me. One more thing to remember, one more little struggle to have. Also, man, pencils do not last as long as I remember them lasting. I was writing weekly reports with one today, and damned if I didn’t sharpen that thing 3 times and half of it was gone in one sitting. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/29 "2008-01-17T02:25:34Z")
It isn’t just schools - my sister nursed in the VA system. They had to provide their own pens, rubber bands and paperclips for several months one year because the system ran out of budget. Oh, and no non-prescription meds for any of the patients either. Need to give someone an enema - run down to Walgreens and buy it on your own dime, our federal government can’t afford to give a 92 year old WWI vet a Fleet enema (it was a few years ago - she still had WWI vets in her care). ---
**Author:** ![Zambini57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4491bb/32.png) [@Zambini57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zambini57)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/30 "2008-01-17T02:28:34Z")
[QUOTE=black rabbit] Speaking as somebody with a fair amount of Kroger stock, you’re a fucking douchnozzle. I’ve worked for public agencies and private companies, Fortune-25-sized large and small. Every. Single. One. of them paid for office supplies, at minimum. The better ones did things like subsidize my parking and hand me an Amex for the occasional unexpected airfare or an extra night at a hotel, no questions asked. I’m a mid-level IT manager with 5 years of experience in the industry, working at a small company in a mid-sized Midwestern city. I make more than a local public school teacher with 25 years of experience and a doctorate. If my employer asked me to pay for my own cell phone, which they’d then demand I use for work related purposes, I’d seriously consider walking out the door. [/QUOTE] You have a great job and a great salary and you’d leave over something as minor as that? You’re pretty stupid. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/31 "2008-01-17T02:32:41Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] If I do 15,000 copies a year, should I have to pay for that? [/quote] Oh God, no, if you’ve got stacks of copying to do, it’s not something you should be wasting your time doing. I fully agree. (I do get skewed with this a little, being peripatetic and working with various schools. I might get through many thousands of printouts and plenty of toner at home, but never is a large chunk of it for use in one school at one time.) > [@](#): > > You know, I just give them away. Is that stupid of me? All I can say is that I’m going to give the glittery stickers a go, because if they have their pupported homing instinct, you won’t feel like you’re giving them away but just lending. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/32 "2008-01-17T02:46:43Z")
[QUOTE=Zambini57] Tissues or pencils? My God! At Kroger’s, you can get a 20 pack of pencils and a years supply of tissue for about $2.95. Oh, but that’s right. Why should you have to pay? Much better to fill out forms, waste time and stress out. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zambini57] You have a great job and a great salary and you’d leave over something as minor as that? You’re pretty stupid. [/QUOTE] Man, you’re just a ray of sunshine, aren’t ya? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/33 "2008-01-17T02:49:17Z")
[QUOTE=Zambini57] You have a great job and a great salary and you’d leave over something as minor as that? [/quote] Yep. If an employer won’t provide me with the tools I need to do my job, it’s not an employer that I want to work for. At the very least, I’d start idly browsing Monster during business hours. My offer letter _didn’t_ say $XX,XXX per year, minus $600 (plus overages) for a cell phone, and I doubt many teacher’s collective bargaining agreements say $XX,XXX per year, minus a couple thou in school supplies. > [@](#): > > You’re pretty stupid. Better than being a sucker, sucker. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/34 "2008-01-17T02:53:41Z")
[QUOTE=Zambini57] You have a great job and a great salary and you’d leave over something as minor as that? You’re pretty stupid. [/QUOTE] I’d agree if he said “I"d quit my job and not find a better one.” As it is, someone with his experience probably wouldn’t have a hard time finding a job where their employer pays for their cell phone. Having an employer-provided cell phone isn’t really a luxury, in many, many companies it’s just viewed as a cost of doing business. But let’s get to the point, you’re just intentionally being an asshole because you get off on it. That’s fine, I guess, this is the pit. But let’s at least keep things in the world of the factual. Show me a Kroger where **I** can buy a year’s worth of tissues for dozens of school children for $2.95 and I’ll mail you a check for $500. And I mean that, $500, I will mail that for you in exchange for a year’s supply of tissues for an entire elementary school class room. I’ll actually mail you a check for $500 + cost of tissues + reimbursement for S&H. The things I’ll require for you to collect your $500: 1. A valid receipt from a Kroger’s, it must clearly show the price as being $2.95 or LESS. 2. A picture of the tissues on display at Kroger with price displayed clearly. I’m sure for $500 it’s worth your time to find a way to get a picture of these amazingly cheap tissues (I require this because otherwise you could possibly find a way to cheat this system.) We’ll work out ground rules as to what assumptions we make (average number of students in a class room, average number of days instruction, and average tissue use per child) if you agree to this in principle. ---
**Author:** ![Zambini57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4491bb/32.png) [@Zambini57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zambini57)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/35 "2008-01-17T02:56:53Z")
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee] **Zambini** ’s snark notwithstanding, I do buy most of my own stuff for the exact reason he stated: . [/QUOTE] Then it’s not really snark, is it? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/36 "2008-01-17T02:58:32Z")
While not wanting to dispute the thrust of the argument, they do seem to be unusally snotty kids. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/37 "2008-01-17T02:58:42Z")
[QUOTE=picker] Man, you’re just a ray of sunshine, aren’t ya? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] To be fair, it’s not a pit thread unless some dimwit comes in to play douchebag’s advocate. I’m glad **zambini** showed up so early to fill the role. Incidentally, how did I deal with the toner issue? I **did** buy the toner, of course. That is, I used my home printer until the school finally ordered the essential supplies. I don’t buy paper: it’s pretty common for my class to go through 80 pages a day (a phonics sheet, a spelling sheet, a homework math sheet, and one or two other pages). I can’t afford to buy nearly a ream of paper every week, on top of the snacks that I often buy and the prizes for well-behaving students that I buy and the supplies for special projects that I buy and all the other things I buy. My previous career was as an executive assistant. If, to take the toner example, I’d _ever_ let the printer run out of toner, my boss would have chewed me out, and I would’ve been at Office Depot inside the hour. It just wasn’t done. Different environment. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/38 "2008-01-17T02:59:08Z")
Looks like I can 570 tissues [here](http://www.restockit.com/Kleenex-Boutique-White-2-Ply-Tissue-Pop-Up-Box-6-BoxesPack-(KIM21271).html) for $12.18–that is from a discount online retailer with a sale on those tissues. Do any of the teachers here think that 570 tissues would last their classroom for an entire year? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/39 "2008-01-17T03:00:54Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Looks like I can 570 tissues [here](http://www.restockit.com/Kleenex-Boutique-White-2-Ply-Tissue-Pop-Up-Box-6-BoxesPack-(KIM21271).html) for $12.18–that is from a discount online retailer with a sale on those tissues. Do any of the teachers here think that 570 tissues would last their classroom for an entire year? [/QUOTE] Heh. Some kids, they think they need six tissues per blow. 570 tissues in a classroom of 20 kids in cold season ought to last about a week. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795/40 "2008-01-17T03:04:09Z")
You forgot to account for spills, glasses-polishing, mess-wiping-up, took-one-too-many-by-accident, etc, etc. Make it 4 days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perfect-attendance-award/433795.md?page=3)