# Perhaps God WILL help you, but also help yourself a bit? Maybe? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722 "2008-05-09T17:32:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/21 "2008-05-09T20:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] I don’t think God really has anything to do with this - I think those people are just plain crazy… [/QUOTE] I got the same vibe halfway through the OP. There’s some legitimate co-dependent nuttiness going on there. It may be Christian flavoured ice cream, but it’s still milk and sugar crazy. My father has brothers and sisters who have hosed thier lives away with exactly the same sort of idiocy, except they DON’T keep blaming/crediting God. You know what? It’s just as crazy, just as irritating, and just as stupid without the God bit. Leeches and jackals, the lot of them. Some people are just complete, utter, hopeless losers. Some losers have the skill of convincing others to bail them out; those are the losers in the OP. Some don’t and they end up homeless or dead or in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/22 "2008-05-09T21:15:54Z")
[QUOTE=SisterCoyote] Not to derail the thread, but when I saw the thread title I thought this might be about the fact that the Duggars are having another baby. [/QUOTE] Another? How many is that now? Can’t wait to see what they name this one.. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/23 "2008-05-09T21:19:27Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] Pops Mercotan always told me never to help a lame duck over a fence, because they’ll crap in your hands every time. [/QUOTE] Well thanks for sharing that little jewel with the rest of us. I’ll keep that in mind. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/24 "2008-05-09T21:37:55Z")
Wow. Just, wow. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/25 "2008-05-09T21:52:20Z")
[QUOTE=teela brown] Many years ago, I read an essay by either Mark Twain or John Steinbeck, I can’t remember which. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t have imagine you could confuse the two, but I can hear the essay in either of their voices … But I don’t see what wrong with the conclusion. If one believes in an omnipotent god, he created all those researchers and care-givers, blessed them with intelligence, determination, and compassion, and tossed in the compound microscope & knowledge of sterile technique along the way. Of course, he also wants all his creation to be appreciate, including those scientists. But I digress. I hate people like those in the OP. I like to help people; it feels good, spreads a bit of goodness, and makes up for my other failings. But, oh, do I hate to get scammed. People like that just poison the whole well. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/26 "2008-05-09T22:05:17Z")
[QUOTE=Flutterby] Another? How many is that now? Can’t wait to see what they name this one.. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure. 18, I think? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/27 "2008-05-09T22:13:41Z")
[QUOTE=SisterCoyote] I’m not sure. 18, I think? [/QUOTE] [There’s a thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=467395) ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/28 "2008-05-09T22:27:00Z")
[QUOTE=SisterCoyote] I’m not sure. 18, I think? [/QUOTE] And then her uterus fell out. Holy crap, I was screaming “NEVER AGAIN!” when I was in labor with the second. More on topic: people have bad enough opinions about Catholics specifically and Christians in general; do they really need to blame their lazy moochery on God? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/29 "2008-05-09T22:38:19Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] More on topic: people have bad enough opinions about Catholics specifically and Christians in general; do they really need to blame their lazy moochery on God? [/QUOTE] Well, to be fair the dude never speaks up or repudiates 'em. The rest of us have to be forgiven for assuming tacit consent, y’know? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/30 "2008-05-09T23:08:13Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] And then her uterus fell out. Holy crap, I was screaming “NEVER AGAIN!” when I was in labor with the second. [/QUOTE] Well, like I said in the (now moved to GD) thread…one good sneeze around her due date ought to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/31 "2008-05-10T01:35:16Z")
When I read the OP, I immediately thought of a couple back in the 80’s ( IIRC ) that made the news because they tried to have the Wizard of Oz removed from the local school, because Dorothy was told at the end that she had the power to return home all along, with the Ruby Slippers. They thought that she should have prayed instead of using the Slippers, because doing anything to help yourself was impious. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/32 "2008-05-10T01:49:22Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] Whatever happened to that old bit about God helps those who help themselves? [/QUOTE] That’s Ben Franklin, though people often think it’s a bible quote. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/33 "2008-05-10T01:54:38Z")
A _volunteer_ and a _busybody_ are two different things. _Volunteers_ help out when needed. _Busybodies_ have their noses in someone else’s business. If you made a telephone call to report the man to his boss, for example, when he was building bookcases on a sick day, you were being a _busybody._ I know that many people are trying to be kind to these folks, but they need to stop treating them like children. Their kindness is enabling a lifestyle that has become a burden to others. The situation is a heartbreaker. Their beliefs are _their_ business, but the community is encouraging them to live in this fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/34 "2008-05-10T02:09:26Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] A _volunteer_ and a _busybody_ are two different things. _Volunteers_ help out when needed. _Busybodies_ have their noses in someone else’s business. If you made a telephone call to report the man to his boss, for example, when he was building bookcases on a sick day, you were being a _busybody._ [/quote] If my friend were employing some deadbeat like that, I’d tell him too. Depends on which one is your friend in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/35 "2008-05-10T02:20:08Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] If my friend were employing some deadbeat like that, I’d tell him too. Depends on which one is your friend in that situation. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s where my thinking was coming from. First off I’ve known one of them longer and we’re very close. He’s also the father of five remarkable kids and are not the least co-dependent. Their house is the one all their kids friends know they can come to anytime. The other I’ve known half as long, and I’d been hearing one worry that the other was taking advantage of his kindness. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/36 "2008-05-10T02:50:21Z")
[QUOTE=teela brown] Many years ago, I read an essay by either Mark Twain or John Steinbeck, I can’t remember which. He described the history of the study and cure of hookworm, which took doctors and scientists many years of research, deduction and recommendations of how to avoid infection. After all this, cases of hookworm infection went way down, and not-so-bright folks instantly proclaimed that “it was all God’s doing!”. Um, no. It was the accomplishment of medical science. You just can’t reason with folks like these. They reverse-engineer every good event so that it was God’s doing, and every bad event is chalked up to the turning away from God. [/QUOTE] Mark Twain wrote it. It’s in _Letters From the Earth,_ I think. ---
**Author:** ![movingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@movingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/movingfinger)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/37 "2008-05-10T05:32:57Z")
I was taught that God always answers your prayers. Frequently the answer is “NO!” ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/38 "2008-05-10T05:58:07Z")
[QUOTE=ENugent] I always liked [this one](http://www.jakesjokes.com/joke_26702.php): > [@](#): > > It was flooding in California. As the flood waters were rising, a man was on the stoop of his house and another man in a row boat came by. The man in the row boat told the man on the stoop to get in and he’d save him. The man on the stoop said, no, he had faith in God and would wait for God to save him. The flood waters kept rising and the man had to go to the second floor of his house. A man in a motor boat came by and told the man in the house to get in because he had come to rescue him. The man in the house said no thank you. He had perfect faith in God and would wait for God to save him. The flood waters kept rising. Pretty soon they were up to the man’s roof and he got out on the roof. A helicopter then came by, lowered a rope and the pilot shouted down in the man in the house to climb up the rope because the helicopeter had come to rescue him. The man in the house wouldn’t get in. He told the pilot that he had faith in God and would wait for God to rescue him. The flood waters kept rising and the man in the house drowned. When he got to heaven, he asked God where he went wrong. He told God that he had perfect faith in God, but God had let him drown. > > “What more do you want from me?” asked God. “I sent you two boats and a helicopter.” [/QUOTE] ::: Shakes fist::: That’s what I came here to post! ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722/39 "2008-05-10T14:51:57Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] That’s Ben Franklin, though people often think it’s a bible quote. [/QUOTE] Actually, a variant predates even Franklin: [QUOTE=Aesop] Hercules and the Waggoner A Waggoner was once driving a heavy load along a very muddy way. At last he came to a part of the road where the wheels sank half-way into the mire, and the more the horses pulled, the deeper sank the wheels. So the Waggoner threw down his whip, and knelt down and prayed to Hercules the Strong. “O Hercules, help me in this my hour of distress,” quoth he. But Hercules appeared to him, and said: “Tut, man, don’t sprawl there. Get up and put your shoulder to the wheel.” Moral: The gods help them that help themselves. [/QUOTE] Now, I’ve seen a turn-of-the-last-century book with a different translation of the moral: “It is in vain to expect our prayers to be heard if we do not strive as well as pray.” The song remains the same, IMHO. [Cite.](http://books.google.com/books?id=rUbRa8jtSz8C&pg=PR22&lpg=PR22&dq=hercules+and+the+waggoner&source=web&ots=4dLiVAkU5H&sig=1HTC46VtEkeuCbEY449v18V88Fc&hl=en) See page 69. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perhaps-god-will-help-you-but-also-help-yourself-a-bit-maybe/448722.md?page=1)