# Perle Calls For Pre-emtive Strike Against N. Korea Nuclear Reactor - WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280 "2003-06-12T05:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/1 "2003-06-12T05:04:06Z")
> [@](#): > > The United States should be prepared to destroy North Korea’s Yongbyon reactor if necessary to keep Pyongyang from trafficking in nuclear weapons, an influential member of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s advisory panel said on Wednesday. > > “Whether we can effectively mobilize a coalition – including China, Russia, the South Koreans, the Japanese, ourselves – and so isolate them that they will abandon this program, that remains to be seen,” said Richard Perle, an architect of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Source: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45524-2003Jun11.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45524-2003Jun11.html) Citing Israel’s 1981 attack on Iraq’s nuclear facilities, Perle says, “We should always be prepared to go it alone, if necessary.” Sure, North Korea is not Iraq when it comes to WMDs, but should the US _seriously_ consider such a strike, let alone tell the world about it? The world has certainly changed in the 22 years since the Israeli strike. All the reports I’ve read indicate the North Korean leader is more than a few fries short of a Happy Meal. Is it wise, especially as the Iraqi affair takes on new post-war turns almost daily, to begin heating up the rhetoric with North Korea? The USA is on its back foot when it comes to diplomacy and international relations right now. Even if this pronouncement is just high stakes poker, er, sabre-rattling, er blind man’s bluff from the Administration, my gut feeling is telling me the Administration may have a “strike while the iron is hot” mentality that just won’t go away. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/2 "2003-06-12T05:26:02Z")
And precisely how long, following a strike against NK’s nuclear facilities, would it be before artillery shells started raining down on Seoul? Apparently, the South Koreans don’t count when we’re “going it alone.” Our government is truly in the hands of some dangerously loony folks. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/3 "2003-06-12T06:30:50Z")
So, what are you saying? We should leave the world to be ruled by whoever’s craziest? We should let ourselves be blackmailed? If NK responds to an airstrike with an artillery strike, we’ll respond with widespred bombing and probably an invasion. So Bush ordering an airstrike is a lot less loony than Il ordering an artillery strike. So why does Bush get the blame in this hypothetical? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/4 "2003-06-12T06:43:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > So, what are you saying? We should leave the world to be ruled by whoever’s craziest? We should let ourselves be blackmailed? No! One hundred times NO! Someone has to stop President Bush! > [@](#): > > If NK responds to an airstrike with an artillery strike, we’ll respond with widespred bombing and probably an invasion. So Bush ordering an airstrike is a lot less loony than Il ordering an artillery strike. So why does Bush get the blame in this hypothetical? Oh I see you are on his side. Oh well, nice solution you have there. You think South Korea will like it? And while we are at it I guess we could deal with African problems by bombing the shit out of them too. That ought to teach them not to be hungry or start wars. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/5 "2003-06-12T07:04:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\*So why does Bush get the blame in this hypothetical? \*\* Because he orders the first shot and turns a high-tension situation into a shooting war. War kinda sucks. Staying out of war because your opponent might have the cheek to shoot back as he’s able to isn’t “being blackmailed”, it’s reacting rationally to deterrence. Anyway, it might be conceivable that the South Koreans ought to have a say in whether or not they want to risk having Seoul levelled as part of the opening gambit of the Korean War 2.0. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/6 "2003-06-12T07:13:05Z")
Why do I get the feeling Perle gets too many ideas from bad action movies? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/7 "2003-06-12T09:31:38Z")
Why omit a few key quotes from the story? > [@](#): > > “Whether we can effectively mobilize a coalition – including China, Russia, the South Koreans, the Japanese, ourselves – and so isolate them that they will abandon this program, that remains to be seen,” said Richard Perle, an architect of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. And you conveniently leave out the next part: > [@](#): > > **"That’s certainly the preferable way to deal with it," he added in a speech to a conference on Iraqi reconstruction.** > [@](#): > > Asked whether the United States ultimately might resort to force, he said: “It is too soon to say whether that’s the only way we can prevent something I think we must prevent.” Hrmm. No, Perle is not calling for preemptive strikes. You have ‘Dowd-ified’ the story. ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/8 "2003-06-12T10:42:57Z")
I thought Perle was history … ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/9 "2003-06-12T11:02:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duckster \* > \*\* > Sure, North Korea is not Iraq when it comes to WMDs, but should the US _seriously_ consider such a strike, let alone tell the world about it? The world has certainly changed in the 22 years since the Israeli strike. \*\* Yes, it is wise for the US to seriously consider such a strike. It may or may not be wise to tell the world about it. I suppose they want N. Korea to know we mean business. N. Korea is dangerous. > [@](#): > > \*\* > All the reports I’ve read indicate the North Korean leader is more than a few fries short of a Happy Meal. Is it wise, especially as the Iraqi affair takes on new post-war turns almost daily, to begin heating up the rhetoric with North Korea? \*\* Given the history of N. Korea do you really think they respond well when we’re nice? The N. Korean government has kidnapped foreign nationals, they regularly sent submarines to introduce infiltrators into S. Korea, and in 1996 they said they would no longer observe the terms of the armistice. We never signed a peace treaty with N. Korea. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Even if this pronouncement is just high stakes poker, er, sabre-rattling, er blind man’s bluff from the Administration, my gut feeling is telling me the Administration may have a “strike while the iron is hot” mentality that just won’t go away. \*\* N. Korea is dangerous and we have an obligation to defend S. Korea. Any fire fight will be uglier then what we saw in Iraq. If we did a strike against their nuclear facilities we’d likely have to attempt to destroy their ability to make war at the same time. Marc ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/10 "2003-06-12T11:40:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by flonks \* > \*\*I thought Perle was history … \*\* He just stepped down from being in charge of the Defense Advisory Board. AFAIK, he’s still trying to broker a deal that would turn control of the phone system used by the fed gov and the US military pver to a chinese national who has strong ties to the Chinese intelligence agency. The deal has already been struck down once as a threat to national security. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/11 "2003-06-12T11:52:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\*N. Korea is dangerous and we have an obligation to defend S. Korea. > \*\* How come we have an obligation to defend S. Korea? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/12 "2003-06-12T12:24:40Z")
If the US is going to attack NorKor, they will have to use weapons of mass destruction to take out a 5-10 mile swath along the entire 38th parallel to wipe out all the offensive weapons aimed at Seoul. Not sure that the US is ready to do that yet. ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/13 "2003-06-12T12:41:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*How come we have an obligation to defend S. Korea? \*\* 1. Because the US has some tens of thousands of sodiers in SK and considers SK as an ally. Therefore an attack on NK will result in an attack of SK by NK. 2. Because the destruction of SK’s economy by a war with NK would have horrible effects on the world economy. SK is a major player. Of course, all that is in addition the the obvious reason why SK should be defended. They are friends, right? Forgotten? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/14 "2003-06-12T12:43:00Z")
No, no, I haven’t forgotten. I do seem to have read somewhere that they didn’t particularly want our troops there … or am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/15 "2003-06-12T12:56:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by flonks \* > **1. Because the US has some tens of thousands of sodiers in SK…** Maybe not for much longer. [U.S. Troops To Exit Korea DMZ](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/09/world/main557628.shtml) > [@](#): > > SEOUL, South Korea, June 5, 2003 > (CBS/AP) The United States and South Korea agreed Thursday to withdraw U.S. troops from the tense Demilitarized Zone separating South Korea from communist North Korea. > > The troops will be moved farther south, a joint statement said after two days of talks. The redeployment will remove U.S. military bases from the Korean front line for the first time since the end of the 1950-53 Korean War. > > The statement gave no timetable for the withdrawal. Even after the redeployment, U.S. troops will continue to train north of Seoul and close to the DMZ, it said. > > In April, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said U.S. troops stationed near the Korean DMZ could be shifted south, moved to other countries in the region or even brought home under a global realignment of U.S. troops. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/16 "2003-06-12T13:13:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Why omit a few key quotes from the story? > … > Hrmm. No, Perle is not calling for preemptive strikes. You have ‘Dowd-ified’ the story. \*\* You don’t seem to have any problem leaving out a key quote: > [@](#): > > \*\* “But I don’t think anyone can exclude the kind of surgical strike we saw in 1981,” he said, referring to Israel’s surprise air attack that destroyed Iraq’s Osirak nuclear reactor near Baghdad on June 7, 1981. “We should always be prepared to go it alone, if necessary.”\*\* Source: [MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.com/news/924023.asp). That makes it pretty plain to me, at least, that he thinks “taking out” NK’s reactor is a realistic option. Sure, it would preferable to defuse the situation with the cooperation of NK’s neighbors. But, IMHO, a strike against NK’s reactor is _not_ a realistic option; how many South Korean lives would you say it’s worth? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/17 "2003-06-12T13:13:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*How come we have an obligation to defend S. Korea? \*\* Because we said we would. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/18 "2003-06-12T13:42:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Early Out \* > \*\*You don’t seem to have any problem leaving out a key quote:… > > Sure, it would preferable to defuse the situation with the cooperation of NK’s neighbors. But, IMHO, a strike against NK’s reactor is _not_ a realistic option; how many South Korean lives would you say it’s worth? \*\* The quote that you are so proud of is already referred to by the OP. The statement, “Perle Calls For Pre-emtive Strike Against N. Korea Nuclear Reactor…” is obviously incorrect. Perle stated that strikes were but one option in dealing with NK. Perle states that he favours a coalition effort to excert pressure on NK. The OP was obviously either misinformed or intentionally misleading. As to how many S.Korean lives, blah blah blah, do you really think the danger to S.Korea will _lessen_ once NK starts turning out nuclear weapons in number? ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/19 "2003-06-12T14:12:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > **The statement, “Perle Calls For Pre-emtive Strike Against N. Korea Nuclear Reactor…” is obviously incorrect.** Granted, the thread title represents overreaching. He’s not “calling for” a strike, just not ruling it out as an option. > [@](#): > > \*\* As to how many S.Korean lives, blah blah blah, do you really think the danger to S.Korea will _lessen_ once NK starts turning out nuclear weapons in number? \*\* That “blah, blah, blah” reveals more about your concern for human life than anything I could possibly say. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280/20 "2003-06-12T14:20:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Early Out \* > \*\*…That “blah, blah, blah” reveals more about your concern for human life than anything I could possibly say. \*\* Oh, please. Nobody is being fast and loose with SK lives, other than NK. And one day, when NK is able to fit a nuke to a missle (if they cannot do so already), and threatens to wipe out Seoul, mere artillery will look like a cheery alternative. Some problems have no neat solutions. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perle-calls-for-pre-emtive-strike-against-n-korea-nuclear-reactor-wtf/181280.md?page=2)