# "Permanent" ground level scaffolding in NYC? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 24, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598 "2003-07-24T12:47:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ChryslerBldg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e480ec/32.png) [@ChryslerBldg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChryslerBldg)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/1 "2003-07-24T12:47:03Z")
I recently returned from New York and I am always surprised at the number of buildings that have seeming permanent scaffolding in place over the sidewalks. Many even have large, profssional billboard type ads on them. I’ve bee to many other cities, and while the level of general construction in NYC seems higher, it does not seem to account for the huge number of buildings with scaffolding. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/2 "2003-07-24T13:03:10Z")
I think the key to your OP is “seeming permanent”. Big jobs on high rise buildings call for extra secure scaffolding. I can’t think of any that are permanent although there are many that can be there for months or years so they secure them as if they were permenent. It doens’t take long for adds to pop up on them either. Do you have a particular building ? I think Times Suare has a big project going on but I haven’t been to that part of the city in a while. Even if I was I might not have noticed it anyway. Scaffolding never seems to go away it just moves from building to buiilding. ---
**Author:** ![ChryslerBldg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e480ec/32.png) [@ChryslerBldg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChryslerBldg)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/3 "2003-07-24T13:09:22Z")
NYR407, I think I be hard pressed to find a single block in Manhatten with less than 2 buildings with ground floor scaffolding. And maybe only 1 in 3 has some type of visible work going on. ---
**Author:** ![NoGoodNamesLeft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoGoodNamesLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoGoodNamesLeft)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/4 "2003-07-24T13:43:04Z")
There is something similar around the ESB, isn’t there? (But that’s to shield pedestrians from falling pennies, I thought) ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/5 "2003-07-24T13:44:05Z")
I’ll bet you can. Although scaffolding is rampant in Manhattan it is not on every single block. QUOTE:\*\* “…only 1 in 3 has some type of visible work going on” \*\* You are saying “visible work”. Some projects start at 5am and are done by lunch time. The rest of the day it would seem like no work is being done at all. There may be interior work being done and requires the scaffolding at later date. They may be working on the roof. They may be working on the other side of the block. Their insurance requires the scaffolding until the entire project is completed. There are a bunch of reasons why you didn’t see any “visible work” being done. I still don’t know of any actual **permanent sacffolding** in Manhattan. Come back in a few years and see if they are still on the same buildings. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/6 "2003-07-24T13:54:44Z")
Perhaps the most common reason for scaffolding is [Local Law Eleven](http://www.nycooperative.com/laws/ll111998), which requires that building facades be rigorously inspected at least once every five years, and restored if necessary - and that seems to be a lot of the time (I’m not sure if the inspectors are actually independent from the contractors specializing in repointing facades.) Several widely publicized cases of loose facade bricks falling on unsuspecting pedestrians led to the law, originally passed in 1980. Since then, scaffolding seems to be almost ubiquitous. Oh, and because buildings tend to come up close to the sidewalk in NYC - and there tend to be a lot of pedestrians - the scaffolding has to be extra-strong, almost a tunnel. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/7 "2003-07-24T14:06:36Z")
Here’s the deal. After a rash of accidents from falling building debris, the city (or state) passed a law saying that the outside of buildings must be inspected and repaired every so-and-so years. Until the inspection, or while repairs are being done, scaffolding is installed over the sidewalks to protect pedestrians from possible falling debris. During this time there is no penalty for the faulty or uninspected building facade. Well, building owners soon realized something. The cost of installing and renting the scaffolding, plus the cost of fines for keeping a scaffolding “permanently” erected (apparently there is a law against it) is often less than the cost of actually doing the inspection and/or repairs on the building! So the scaffolding goes up and stays up. There was an article about this phenomenon about 5 - 10 years ago in the NY Press (the weekly where the SD runs here in NYC). ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/8 "2003-07-24T14:40:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NYR407 \* > \*\* > I still don’t know of any actual **permanent sacffolding** in Manhattan. \*\* There’s scaffolding on the Cathedral of [St. John The Divine](http://www.henrywagner.org/pictures/NYC/StJohns/vt049.htm) that for all practical purposes is permanent. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/9 "2003-07-24T14:51:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mack \* > \*\*There’s scaffolding on the Cathedral of > [St. John The Divine](http://www.henrywagner.org/pictures/NYC/StJohns/vt049.htm) that for all practical purposes is permanent. \*\* But of course it’s not really “ground level” as I see upon re-reading the thread title, so…never mind:o ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/10 "2003-07-24T14:58:04Z")
The Fisk Building, irectly across the street from me, at the corner of Bway and 57th, has been scaffolded since–I think–I moved to the city 7 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/11 "2003-07-24T15:00:59Z")
D-irectly, that is. ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/12 "2003-07-24T15:21:08Z")
**toadspittle** according to their web site the construction started in 2000. [http://www.fiskbuilding.com/news/buildingnews/upgrade.cfm](http://www.fiskbuilding.com/news/buildingnews/upgrade.cfm) **mack** , what is the practical purpose? Is it falling down? Unfixable? ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/13 "2003-07-24T15:26:36Z")
**toadspittle** according to their web site the construction started in 2000. Maybe they needed the scaffolding up earlier because of saftey concerns. [http://www.fiskbuilding.com/news/buildingnews/upgrade.cfm](http://www.fiskbuilding.com/news/buildingnews/upgrade.cfm) **mack** , what is the practical purpose? Is it falling down? Unfixable? ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/14 "2003-07-24T20:35:27Z")
Funny, I’ve been thinking of asking this question for some time now. For example, there is a building that I walk by frequently that has scaffolding up three years ago when I moved to NYC. There is no sign that any work is being done on the building at all. I figure the explanation was along the lines of what **stuyguy** said, though I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying that if they took the scaffolding down, they would be fined for having a run-down facade? The building in question, by the way, is some sort of homeless shelter, which would explain why they wouldn’t have the money to fix up the building. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-ground-level-scaffolding-in-nyc/190598/15 "2003-07-24T20:50:41Z")
chula, the scaffolding is a cheap prophelactic “we’re working on it” measure that enables the owner to stall the real work (or inspection) indefinately. If they took it down (without actually fixing the unsafe condition) they would be in violation of Local Law Eleven (see Oxy’s link – it’s helpful).