# Permanent Spoiler Injunctions \[um, SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955 "2005-12-16T18:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/1 "2005-12-16T18:52:29Z")
What movies will it NEVER be okay to reveal their spoilers in open discussion? You know, which movies’ entire experience is based on believing one thing for most of the movie, or simply being in the dark about something, that’s revealed at the end? Movies whose “reveal” is absolutely crucial to the entire experience of watching them? I mean, most movies, after it’s been out a couple months, there’s no need for spoiler warnings. Most movies, we know the boy eventually gets the girl, or the gangster eventually gets his hail of bullets. Here’s one spoiler we’ll never need to box, frinstance: Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan finally get together in the end. But here are some that will ALWAYS require boxes, in polite society: In _Citizen Kane_, “Rosebud” is the sled the young Charles played on as a child; represents lost innocence. In _Psycho_, the female lead gets it in the first act. In _The Usual Suspects_, Kevin Spacey is really Kaiser Soze. In _The Crying Game_, the chick’s got a dick. In _Se7en_, that’s Gwyneth Paltrow’s head in the box, and Brad Pitt kills the suspect, who is (what, _again_?) Kevin Spacey. (Side note: when _Se7en_–I always wanna pronounce that cute spelling as “sezen”–when \*Se7en \*was in the theaters, I was at a movie next door. I peeked my head into \*Se7en \*to see if it was over yet, in case some hypothetical third party wanted to sneak in to see it for free. Guess what scene I caught when I peeked in? That’ll larn ya to jump \*that \*turnstile.) In _The Sixth Sense_, the protagonist is dead, only he don’t know it. I know there are a lot more–especially after _The Sixth Sense_ was a big hit; everybody and their director needed a 180 degree at the end. But I thought I’d let some of the rest of you play. (Note: I know that some of you are smarter than the rest of us, and none of these movies ever fooled you for a moment. For myself, I knew the _Crying Game_ twist the moment we see the snapshot in the wallet, at the beginning of the movie. But let’s just take that as a given, for the purposes of this thread. K? K.) (Further note: _The Village_ is disqualified for sheer dumbness.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/2 "2005-12-16T18:57:29Z")
**The Empire Strikes Back** Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker’s dad **Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince** (not a movie yet, I know, but it will be eventually) Snape kills Dumbledore ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/3 "2005-12-16T19:00:45Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > **The Empire Strikes Back** Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker’s dad Hmm. But– “Luke, I am your father”–is such a cultural touchstone. Is that spoiler really necessary–or even possible–any more? But then, I spose you could say the same thing abut \*The Crying Game \*at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/4 "2005-12-16T19:05:56Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Hmm. But– > > “Luke, I am your father”–is such a cultural touchstone. Is that spoiler really necessary–or even possible–any more? But then, I spose you could say the same thing abut \*The Crying Game \*at this point. That’s a good point but I don’t think many of the OP’s examples are really spoilers anymore either. Are there really very many people who don’t know Bruce Wills was a ghost or that Rosebud was a sled? I’m sort of just reading the OP as an invitation to list examples of great movie twists or surprises that would be ruined if you knew. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/5 "2005-12-16T19:10:56Z")
Soylent Green is people!😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/6 "2005-12-16T19:14:56Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s a good point but I don’t think many of the OP’s examples are really spoilers anymore either. Are there really very many people who don’t know Bruce Wills was a ghost or that Rosebud was a sled? > > I’m sort of just reading the OP as an invitation to list examples of great movie twists or surprises that would be ruined if you knew. No, I suppose you’re right. But I would hope to preserve the experience, even for those few people who are not aware. And while there may not be that many people in our generation who knows what Rosebud means, it’s certainly not something we’re BORN knowing; there’s always a new generation ready to experience _Citizen Kane_ on its own terms. I guess my point is that the _Star Wars_ mythology seems to me to be much more universal in today’s culture than _Citizen Kane_’s; it’s certainly undeniable that more people have seen the former. I mean, I would personally always box Rosebud spoilers, but it would never occur to me to box “I am your father.” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/7 "2005-12-16T19:16:49Z")
Must perview. > [@lissener](#): > > . . . there may not be that many people in our generation who [del]knows[/del] **[don’t know]** what Rosebud means . . . ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/8 "2005-12-16T19:20:06Z")
1. The first rule of Fight Club: you don’t talk about Fight Club. 2. The second rule of Fight Club: you don’t talk about the ending of Fight Club. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/9 "2005-12-16T20:00:46Z")
Similar to _The Sixth Sense_, I think we can agree to permanently spoil _The Others_ where Nicole Kidman and her children are the ghosts, not the mysterious blind lady and the little boy ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/10 "2005-12-16T20:20:06Z")
I don’t think knowing about Rosebud would have any effect on someone’s enjoyment of the movie. Film students might disagree, but I’m not a film student. I agree with your other choices, and I’d probably add **The Village** , even though it will never have the classic status of those other movies. ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/11 "2005-12-16T22:07:33Z")
The Rosebud Rule is the one that says certain movie secrets are so well-known that it’s okay to discuss them openly, and is appropriately named. _The Crying Game_, _Psycho_, and _The Empire Strikes Back_ certainly also fit into that category. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/12 "2005-12-16T22:38:26Z")
K, well, then I guess we won’t legislate it. The OP lists my personal eternal spoilers; the ones I think it’s more polite not to spoil for people who haven’t yet seen the movies. What are YOUR personal movies, that you avoid spoiling, just out of politeness? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/13 "2005-12-16T22:39:40Z")
Or, so this doesn’t become a thread about the ethics of spoiling, like outing or something, let’s just list movies whose entire experience is based on not knowing what’s coming. Whether to spoil that or not, we’ll leave aside. ---
**Author:** ![boofuu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@boofuu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boofuu)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/14 "2005-12-16T22:56:30Z")
Many of the movies mentioned already I saw well after they came out. And I did a very good job trying to avoid spoilers. For example, I saw _The Sixth Sense_ two years after it came out and while I guessed it before the end of the movie, I did not go in knowing and would have been upset if someone _assumed_ I knew. I have a friend who recently came back from a stint with the Peace Corps and I have to watch what I say around her, even for movies as silly as _The Village_. (Could we call this recent trend of the surprise twist _Shyamalanization_? While not new, is the trend more prevalent?) And as someone said, there is a whole new generation of movies goers for whom these are surprises even if the whole entire world seems to have seen the movie. Although I would say the the “surprise” from Star Wars has not been a surprise since 1978. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/15 "2005-12-16T23:05:36Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Hmm. But– > > “Luke, I am your father”–is such a cultural touchstone. Is that spoiler really necessary–or even possible–any more? A friend of mine had somehow managed to avoid seeing _Empire Strikes Back_ until about five years ago. He had seen the original _Star Wars_ when I dragged him to the “Special Edition”, but hadn’t seen any of the others. So finally I rented Empire and talked him into watching it. We arrived at the pivotal scene: Vader: Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father. Luke: He told me enough! He told me YOU killed him! Vader: No . . . I am your father! My friend: OH MY GOD!!! So not only had he never seen the movie, but he’d never heard of arguably the most famous movie twist of all time. Which just goes to show . . . you never can be sure. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/16 "2005-12-16T23:06:55Z")
bah, I should have previewed. Now I’ve ruined _Empire Strikes Back_ for all of you. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/17 "2005-12-16T23:37:02Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > bah, I should have previewed. Now I’ve ruined _Empire Strikes Back_ for all of you. ☹ But if the younger generation sees the movies in episode order, episode 3 will spoil it anyway. Actually episode one probably would. Lucas has basically spoiled it for all of us by this point. BTW, _The Homecoming Queen’s Got a Gun_ spoils Citizen Kane. I wonder if there are other songs that are spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/18 "2005-12-17T00:05:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > BTW, _The Homecoming Queen’s Got a Gun_ spoils Citizen Kane. “What are you watching.” “_Citizen Kane._…I haven’t seen it before.” “Rosebud was his sled.” “AUUUGH!” -Charles Schulz ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/19 "2005-12-17T00:26:39Z")
Saw II. And for a good example of someone REALLY showing people who download music illegally, check out the description of this torrent\*: Link to filesharing site removed \*2 clicks required, includes spoiler, I do not endorce the downloading of copyrighted material. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955/20 "2005-12-17T00:56:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s a good point but I don’t think many of the OP’s examples are really spoilers anymore either. Are there really very many people who don’t know Bruce Wills was a ghost or that Rosebud was a sled? > > I’m sort of just reading the OP as an invitation to list examples of great movie twists or surprises that would be ruined if you knew. I managed to avoid the Bruce Willis spoiler and so enjoyed the movie better for that reason. So please do keep spoiler boxing that one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/permanent-spoiler-injunctions-um-spoilers/335955.md?page=2)