# perpetual motion **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 2, 2000, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perpetual-motion/5988 "2000-01-02T06:06:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2000, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perpetual-motion/5988/21 "2000-01-03T20:27:00Z")
\<------- smiling as I sit here, reading the thread…listening to “Perpetual Change” by “YES”… What Nick said… Cartooniverse " If you want to kiss the sky, you’d better learn how to kneel " ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perpetual-motion/5988/22 "2000-01-04T16:12:00Z")
My mate works for the English Patent office. Every month or so, he gets a patent application for a ‘Perpetual Motion Machine’. He writes back to say he’s testing it, then puts it in a cupboard. Several months later he looks and the machine’s stopped. Then he writes back refusing the patent… * * * Why doesn’t the sun come out at night when the light would be more useful? (Pratchett) ---
**Author:** ![Kyberneticist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kyberneticist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyberneticist)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perpetual-motion/5988/23 "2000-01-04T20:51:00Z")
This reminds me of one thought experiment proposed by, I think, Feynman. It consisted of a ratchet. Molecules could go one way, but not the other. This would, eventually, create an imbalance in the container which could be used to do work. The flaw was found to be in random motion in the ratchet itself. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2000, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perpetual-motion/5988/24 "2000-01-09T08:02:00Z")
here’s a related article from Scientific American. Feynmann’s device is discussed. [http://www.sciam.com/1999/0299issue/0299scicit1.html](http://www.sciam.com/1999/0299issue/0299scicit1.html) ---
**Author:** ![eggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@eggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eggo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2000, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perpetual-motion/5988/25 "2000-01-10T06:56:00Z")
not perpetual motion, but pretty damn cool: [http://forums.cosmoaccess.net/forum/survival/prep/library2/rotate.htm](http://forums.cosmoaccess.net/forum/survival/prep/library2/rotate.htm) eggo ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2000, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perpetual-motion/5988/26 "2000-01-10T20:47:00Z")
Regarding the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, I found a link. Here is the text regarding models: > [@](#): > > [http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/models.htm](http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/models.htm) > Models, Exhibits, Specimens > (Excerpted from General Information Concerning Patents print brochure) > > Models or exhibits are not required in most patent applications since the description of the invention in the specification > and the drawings must be sufficiently full, clear, and complete and capable of being understood to disclose the invention > without the aid of a model. > > A working model, or other physical exhibit, may be required by the Office if deemed necessary. This is not done very > often. A working model may be requested in the case of applications for patent for alleged perpetual motion devices. [snip] As a side note, looking through the pages I found the following tidbit: > [@](#): > > [http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/apply.htm](http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/apply.htm) > > WHO MAY APPLY FOR A PATENT > (Excerpted from General Information Concerning Patents print brochure) > If the inventor is **insane** , the application for patent may be made by a guardian. [emphasis added] They’re covering all contingencies. I guess that ensures PPM inventors get their fair hearing, huh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perpetual-motion/5988.md?page=1)