# Person openly carrying an AR-15. Reasonable articulable suspicion of crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2018, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583 "2018-10-27T10:00:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/141 "2018-10-29T06:55:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … A semiautomatic rifle is a good tool to\* hunt small game\*? :rolleyes: Yes. Do you have any hunting experience? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/142 "2018-10-29T06:59:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … HD’s assessment that people are just buying these guns to upset liberals? That was NOT my assessment. It was something you made up. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/143 "2018-10-29T07:35:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes. Do you have any hunting experience? I don’t know anything about hunting small game. Why is a semi-automatic rifle good for small game hunting? Is the ability to fire relatively rapidly particularly useful? Is a semi-automatic a better choice for hunting in general? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/144 "2018-10-29T07:52:32Z")
It’s a strange position to be in. Open carry of long guns is legal in those states but people often act like it’s not - calling the police, panicking. If I were a gun owner I would be very annoyed. I don’t personally agree with lax gun laws, but if that’s what the guns laws are then people should chill out. I think that given the US constitution sets out very broad rights, I disagree with the convoluted state laws for open and concealed carry that are contradictory and at odds with eachother. Both open carry and concealed carry should be legal in all states because that the right. However, I admit to not knowing the history and how the laws became so contradictory in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/145 "2018-10-29T08:05:09Z")
Seems clear to me that if you normalise the owning and using of guns in society for personal defence then you shouldn’t be surprised when you have a high incidence of gun usage and deaths. Open carry of whatever weapons does precisely that. The message is " I have a gun and I am willing to kill you with it if I feel threatened" Doesn’t sound like a healthy societal mindset to me. All the technical definitions in the world regarding “assault weapons” are irrelevant when the overriding purpose is to remind others of a deadly threat. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/146 "2018-10-29T08:14:47Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I don’t know anything about hunting small game. Why is a semi-automatic rifle good for small game hunting? Is the ability to fire relatively rapidly particularly useful? … That’s part of it, yes. Also, from [this decent article](https://www.outdoornews.com/2017/04/24/pa-limits-semi-automatic-rifle-use-not-big-game/): > [@](#): > > … many firearms experts have said they believe semi-automatics are safer in that they allow for continuous focus on the target and often require the shooter to absorb less recoil. > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > … Is a semi-automatic a better choice for hunting in general? There are lots of types of hunting and lots of different firearms that are more or less appropriate choices for those various hunts (and hunters). I don’t know that I’d be comfortable making a sweeping statement about what’s a better choice for hunting “in general”. It depends. In the article I linked above, for example, the Pennsylvania hunters they surveyed supported semi-autos for hunting small game but not big game. I’ll note that the Ruger 10/22 has been a very popular choice for hunting small game across the country for many years. It’s a semi-auto rifle. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/147 "2018-10-29T08:49:15Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > It’s a strange position to be in. Open carry of long guns is legal in those states but people often act like it’s not - calling the police, panicking. If I were a gun owner I would be very annoyed. I don’t personally agree with lax gun laws, but if that’s what the guns laws are then people should chill out. I think that given the US constitution sets out very broad rights, I disagree with the convoluted state laws for open and concealed carry that are contradictory and at odds with eachother. Both open carry and concealed carry should be legal in all states because that the right. However, I admit to not knowing the history and how the laws became so contradictory in the first place. Just an addendum I guess if the primary reason you are doing something is to provoke a reaction then it’s a bit jerkish - Like the “I’m not touching you” behavour of kids. If what you are doing is also fundamentally dangerous to yourself and others, then that ups the jerk scale to something else. It was silly of me to say above “people should chill out”. People very rarely do what they “should”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/148 "2018-10-29T12:29:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > From “or similar weapon” (and similar phrasing he used in other posts) Yes, there’s nothing magical about the AR-15 in particular. Any weapon that is designed to kill a lot of people in a hurry shoudn’t be in civilian hands. Period. > [@](#): > > I think it’s pretty clear that he wants to ban all the scary guns Go to the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh and explain to them that such guns are merely ‘scary’ and they should get the fuck over themselves. > [@](#): > > but I doubt he’s knowledgeable enough to delineate which ones those are. So what? My criteria are stated above. Obviously if I was in Congress, trying to turn those general criteria into legislation, I’d get some expert help. But for purposes of this discussion, banning “weapons designed to kill a lot of people really fast” should suffice just fine. > [@](#): > > I end up spending most of my time and energy beating back stupid ideas. If liberals would stop proposing those, perhaps we could get somewhere productive. If banning guns that enable massacres like the one that happened two days ago, and like so many others we’ve had in recent years - if that’s a stupid idea, I don’t want to be smart. > [@](#): > > I don’t think they’re buying them “to upset liberals”, I think they’re doing it to get them before liberals ban their purchase. Fuck just banning their purchase, I want to ban their _possession_. Whatcha gonna do, call me a ‘gun grabber’? Too late - you pro-gun types have used that up on every trivial gun-control measure, all the way down to closing the gun-show loophole. What are you going to say about me - “he’s a gun-grabber, and _we really mean it this time_, we were just bullshitting every other time we said that about someone”? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/149 "2018-10-29T12:39:18Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > A firearm is a tool. If you open carry, so are you. I like this - although I would add “outside of hunting season” after the word “carry”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/150 "2018-10-29T14:33:07Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … Whatcha gonna do, call me a ‘gun grabber’? … It would be superfluous. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/151 "2018-10-29T14:34:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It would be superfluous. It would be monotonous. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/152 "2018-10-29T14:41:24Z")
If I saw someone open carrying in my state I would immediately call the police. I have NEVER seen anyone open carrying a rifle or a handgun in RI and so anyone doing so would be so far outside the social norms around here that I would be immediately concerned and call the authorities. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/153 "2018-10-29T14:42:18Z")
Just the carrying of a rifle of any sort doesn’t indicate an intent to harm anyone. More often than not, people doing that fall into one of two categories: 1. Member of a minority carrying it to signify that they’re not pushovers. We saw a lot of that around here (Dallas) right around the BLM protest times, and notably during the police shootings a couple of years ago. 2. Right wing white doofuses. Typically the sorts who will do stuff like this because they can, and it makes people uncomfortable. In my experience, it’s either grumpy middle-aged or old men who want to make a political point, or it’s dorkish younger men who like the thrill of wandering around openly armed. Nobody just carrying a rifle normally (slung, no magazine loaded) is intending to commit a crime. But if the person has a magazine in it, and is at port arms or worse, then maybe you can start making some assumptions about what they’re going to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Sjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/154 "2018-10-29T15:20:56Z")
Believe the need to carry an assault rifle into a Walmart is a sign of mental illness . . . Negating the right to own a firearm . . . That would make it a crime . . . ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/155 "2018-10-29T15:50:56Z")
> [@Sjoe](#): > > Believe the need to carry an assault rifle into a Walmart is a sign of mental illness . . . Negating the right to own a firearm . . . That would make it a crime . . . You saying this does not make it true. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/156 "2018-10-29T15:53:26Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > If I saw someone open carrying in my state I would immediately call the police. I have NEVER seen anyone open carrying a rifle or a handgun in RI and so anyone doing so would be so far outside the social norms around here that I would be immediately concerned and call the authorities. FYI: > [@](#): > > Long gun open carry with or without a permit is not prohibited by law. > **[Gun laws in Rhode Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Rhode_Island)** > > Gun laws in Rhode Island regulate the sale, possession, and use of firearms and ammunition in the U.S. state of Rhode Island. > The practice of not issuing permits on a true "shall issue" basis has been the subject of recent litigation. In April 2015, the Rhode Island Supreme Court ruled that a police chief must accept and review carry permit applications and must render a decision and the reasons for that decision. More significantly, the court ruled that the issuing authority must "show cause"... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/157 "2018-10-29T15:56:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You saying this does not make it true. A guy is walking down the street with an AR-15-What is the minimum specific action he could make that would cause you to call the police? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/158 "2018-10-29T16:04:04Z")
> [@Sjoe](#): > > Believe the need to carry an assault rifle into a Walmart is a sign of mental illness . . . Negating the right to own a firearm . . . That would make it a crime . . . Fortunately we live in a country of due process, where a court appearance and a judge’s ruling is necessary before you can be labeled incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/159 "2018-10-29T16:04:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > FYI: > > [Gun laws in Rhode Island - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Rhode_Island) I am fully aware of the gun laws in this state. Let me repeat, I have NEVER seen anyone open carry around here. Not rarely, not once in a while - never. I would immediately call the authorities if I ever saw someone carrying a rifle of any kind walking down the street because it just isn’t done here. And I am certain that most of mu fellow state residents would have the same response. If you don’t like my answer don’t move to Rhode Island. Quote all of the second amendment blather you want, I will still drop a dime on you. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583/160 "2018-10-29T16:09:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A guy is walking down the street with an AR-15-What is the minimum specific action he could make that would cause you to call the police? Good question. I don’t know where these would all fit on the “minimum-maximum” scale in your mind, but some examples: - if I knew that the guy was a prohibited person, I would call the police without any specific action by him. - if he was making verbal threats towards people (e.g. “I’m going to kill \_\_\_\_\_”) - if he was pointing the weapon at people with a finger on / near the trigger. - if the news was lit up of a recent shooting spree in the area with a suspect at large, and the person did not appear to be law enforcement, I’d probably call the cops. There are probably others, but I think that’s sufficient to answer your question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-openly-carrying-an-ar-15-reasonable-articulable-suspicion-of-crime/823583.md?page=9)