Yeah, it’s about as asinine an analogy as I can imagine. It’s like saying you shouldn’t have a kitchen because that’s the most likely place for a fire to start in your house.
Why the difference? The person with the holstered gun in public is just 2 seconds (if that) more removed from being able to turn their unspoken desire to kill people into a reality than the guy who already has it out.
Quite simply, it shouldn’t be nearly as easy as it is for someone to go from having thoughts about killing random people, to actually killing random people.
Ending the legality of possession of weapons of mass slaughter is one thing that could be done.
Ending open carry is another.
Ending concealed carry, excepting being able to obtain a permit for cause, and only being allowed to carry in the furtherance of that cause, is another.
You want a handgun to protect yourself and your loved ones in your home? Fine. Now keep it there. But don’t bring it out to play with the rest of us.
It’s time for America to be a fucking civilized country, rather than an extension of the Wild West through a time warp into the 21st century.
Pinner had to do with the carrying of a pistol which, IMHO, is reasonable for self protection. Carrying an AR-15 in a populated area is unusual, again, IMHO.
I’m sure there are other rifles suitable for hunting small game. Other than that, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘recreation’ but I’m sure it doesn’t justify enabling others to commit mass murders like the one in Pittsburgh this morning.
Again, it’s hard to see that the named advantages justify the mass availability of weapons of mass slaughter.
Just because you want to. What are some legit reasons for owning a car with a 400 HP engine that can go 240MPH? What are some legit reasons for owning a $500K car? What are some legit reasons for owning a $200Million mansion? What are some legit reasons for owning and wearing a $50000 watch?
Sure, the AR15 guy is showing off. So is the Ferrari or Rolex owner.
The trend lines are all against you here. You’re convincing fewer and fewer people.
Gallup: Majority in U.S. Now Oppose Ban on Assault Rifles
Gallup (from 2015): Majority Say More Concealed Weapons Would Make U.S. Safer
They are great for varmint killing, like coyote control.
Some people are a little paranoid and think that the government may collapse. Or a huge disaster may cause the local police to be unable to protect people- this actually happened with Katrina, so it’s not crazy.
Is it “sufficient for questioning” to own, say a years worth of food in case of disaster?
I will point out that Americans own about 15 million AR-15 type weapons, and about that many similar military style semi-auto weapons. So, you’d have the police call in for questioning about one American in ten. :rolleyes:
A lot of people find shooting to be a lot of fun. They do it as a recreational activity. And an AR-15 happens to be a lot of fun, and very comfortable, to shoot. That’s what I mean.
It’s hard for YOU to see it. There are plenty of Americans that see the advantages just fine.
That’s what people hunt with. There are about 14 Million hunters in the USA.
They are indeed- reasonable, safe, useful, and good.
Yeah, that justifies the corpses cooling off in Pittsburgh. Or the ones long buried after the Las Vegas and Parkland shootings. And so forth.
You know, if gun owners were sacrificing their lives to preserve their ‘second amendment rights,’ there might actually be an argument.
But instead, you folks are freely sacrificing other people’s lives so that you can have a fun hobby.
I don’t happen to think that’s moral.
You know the ‘trolley problem’? Where you get to decide which track the trolley goes down?
The general setup is, you can save a life by switching the trolley between tracks. But on the other track, five people will die.
What I see here is a trolley problem where if I switch the track, a bunch of lives get saved, and a fun hobby gets killed.
Pardon me if I think that’s a no-brainer.
There are about 30 million of such weapons in this country. They are very rarely used in crimes.
Handguns were used in 19 times as many murders than rifles were in 2016, according to the Uniform Crime Reporting data. There are about 10000 gun homicides per year. About 5% are with various rifles (this will include lever action 30/30 and of course AR 15 types guns). Assuming that ALL rifle homicides are with AR15 types guns that would mean about 500 murders a year are committed with those 30 Million rifles.
Boy if "AR-15 or similar weapon is good for is to kill a lot of people in a hurry’ then they are certainly really really bad at it.
wiki "The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that in the US in 2015, there were 146,571 “unintentional injury deaths" that year, the fourth leading cause of death. Of those, 47,478 were from unintentional poisoning, 37,757 were from traffic accidents, and 33,381 were from falls.[3]”
Also about 500000 smokers die each year and kill another 50000 by second hand smoke. **You are 100 times more likely to die from Secondhand smoke than from a Ar15 type gun here in the USA.
**
And of course the AR15 is excellent for varmint hunting.
But yes, most of those openly carrying it are show off jerks. Just like those who wear diamond studded gold Rolexes or drive $500K cars.
Your risk has gone up less than if you see someone lighting up a cig.
So, in a area where smoking in public is legal, would it be “reasonable” to call the police? He is endangering your life, and is a jerk, so why not?
I don’t happen to see a good argument for the banning of handguns, only for keeping them out of public spaces as much as possible. Feel free to make one if you think you can.
I’m making an argument for the banning of AR-15s because (a) any other legit use of an AR-15 or similar weapon as a weapon can be managed reasonably well by weapons that aren’t nearly as effective at slaughtering large numbers of people really fast, and (b) the tradeoff between a fun hobby and people’s lives should be an easy choice.
Just because I can’t end gun deaths entirely, doesn’t mean I shouldn’t try to end one class of gun deaths that AFAIAC there’s no justification for leaving a door open to.
And yannowat? Libruls like me have been fighting to reduce these deaths too. From safety caps on prescription drug bottles, to our too-frequently-thwarted desire to improve mass transit (less than a decade ago, Republican governors refused Federal funds for trains because Trains Are Socialism or something like that), lefties like me have been fighting to reduce these deaths. Your point is??
[QUOTE]
Ditto. The progress we’ve made on this one is no less than astounding. When I was a kid, you’d get on a plane, and they’d hand out mini-packages of cigarettes to the adults on the plane. (Us kids had to settle for gum, thank goodness. :)) Smoking was allowed - and normative - practically everywhere; if you didn’t smoke, you still couldn’t get away from it. Nowadays, you can smoke in your home if you so choose, or you can smoke in your car, or outdoors. The point being that you don’t have to put up with other people’s smoke; you can get away from it quite easily.
Thank a liberal. Hell, thank millions of us.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can fight to reduce these other kinds of deaths and fight to reduce gun deaths.
You snipped my statement in a misleading way. I never claimed that most criminals are brilliant: I said that they’re smart enough to recognize that certain things are counter-productive.
Then where are the vast number of criminals waving weapons around well before the crime takes place? Have you ever heard of a mugger pulling out his weapon when his intended victim is still 100 yards away?
Most criminals have a certain amount of low-level cunning that allows them to avoid making certain mistakes.
A major reason for owning and carrying weapons is so that we DON’T have to sacrifice our lives. By and large, it’s the people who don’t have weapons who end up sacrificing their lives on the altar of their own stupidity.
To be clear, I’m not trying to be misleading. I think your statement isn’t true, no matter what qualifiers you add, so I snipped off all the stuff that didn’t matter.
I then gave a counterexample.
DrDeth, your statements are not worthy of response.
So, how about if they are having a pro-gun rally, right outside a school that recently experienced a school shooting?
You left a wide gap in your excluded middle there. People calling the cops on people near a range is silly. You know why they are there, and if anyone starts shooting people, then they are going to get shot quickly as well. I’d not be worried at all about that. But, if the nearest range isn’t easy walking distance, and someone is walking down my sidewalk with a “scary assault rifle”, then I think that it would be prudent to let the legal authorities know about m observations.
Because someone lighting up a cig is a normal, everyday activity that you see. It is not unusual. There is no reason to think that someone smoking a cig is about to commit a crime.
I grew up around guns and I own many, including an AR-15. I can think of no situation besides open warfare, that I would carry a loaded AR-15 down a city street. It has no utility for me at all and it is something extra to have to carry. I don’t believe I have ever seen someone walking down the street with a rifle.
In such a case, I believe that it is reasonable to believe that they just might be going to go plug someone.
I think our side is going too far in pushing this type of issue. You want to convert people to your side, not scare the shit out of them.
Math error: 30 million weapons does not imply 30 million weapon owners. Many of the people who own one such weapon own multiple such weapons, but no such weapon is unowned. Therefore the number of weapon-owners is less than the number of weapons.
Do you have a cite that most murder victims were killed by unarmed assailants?
Hopefully if one repeated the same crime, one would get better at it, no matter how dumb they were. Nonetheless, I stand by my assertion. They generally get caught by being stupid in a situation that you’d think they’d anticipate, but were too dumb to.
Who said anything about weapons in general, or even guns in general?
Feel free to engage the argument I’m actually making, but if you’re going to respond to one that I didn’t make, I’ll have to ask you who you’re talking to.