# "Person with disabilities" vs "Disabled person", etc. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356 "2015-07-27T21:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/21 "2015-07-28T19:02:18Z")
I thought Asperger’s Syndrome disappeared with the DSM-V, and that everyone (who is autistic/has autism, whatever) is merely “on the spectrum.” Is this correct? Should we all banish the word “Asperger’s” from our vocabs? What is the correct way to speak of people who have been diagnosed with an autistic disorder? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/22 "2015-07-28T20:26:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The word “cripple” is definitely more offensive than either “disabled person” or “person with a disability”. Right, but my point is, if it can be night-universally-agreed-upon that “cripple” is offensive, then it’s at least theoretically possible that “disabled person” might also be offensive. I was responding to the implication that there’s no point in even discussing whether or not words are offensive due to the fact that everyone has their own opinions. > [@](#): > > You might want to use “Sally is a paraplegic” when her disability is central to a situation, such as necessary accommodations when being admitted as an inpatient for surgery or medical treatment, although some would argue that we don’t say “Sally is a cancer” or “Sally is a heart attack”… except that medical personnel _do_ sometimes do that, but usually in a context where the medical issue is the reason the person is in hospital or other treatment setting and thus is central to what’s happening. > > On the other hand, you might want to use “Sally is a person with paraplegia” when you want to emphasize the _person_. “Sally is a highly skilled engineer with many awards in the industrial workshop design field, who is fluent Spanish and German, and uses a wheelchair to get around because she has paraplegia.” The disability becomes just one trait among many that describe the person and not the primary trait. I see what you’re saying, except that in both cases, if you use the “wrong” version, it still communicates the information just fine. Q: Does Sally need any particular accomodations?" A: Sally is a person with paraplegia, and therefore will need a wheelchair-accessible room Q: What can you tell me about Sally? A: Sally is a brilliant engineer and poet who loves the Chicago Cubs. She’s also a vegetarian, a Capricorn and a paraplegic In fact, the parallel construction in the second answer makes it flow better than “a vegetarian, a Capricorn, and a person with paraplegia”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/23 "2015-07-28T20:31:15Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I see what you’re saying, except that in both cases, if you use the “wrong” version, it still communicates the information just fine. Do you hear a difference between “a gay just asked me a question” and “a gay person just asked me a question”? Or “a black just knocked on my door” and “a black person just knocked on my door”? I know that I hear them as very different connotatively. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/24 "2015-07-28T20:35:56Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Just for the record, I was the person in the thread who stated that in my experiences at work in our relationship with the disability community, person-first language such as “person with a disability” is generally preferred to identity-first language such as “disabled person”… I suppose we’ll all have to change all those “Disabled Persons Only” parking signs. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/25 "2015-07-28T20:36:27Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > I thought Asperger’s Syndrome disappeared with the DSM-V, and that everyone (who is autistic/has autism, whatever) is merely “on the spectrum.” Is this correct? Should we all banish the word “Asperger’s” from our vocabs? What is the correct way to speak of people who have been diagnosed with an autistic disorder? Speaking from experience as the parent (and therefore advocate with the school system and other governmental entities) of a kid with Asperger’s: I still say Asperger’s most of the time. Even if it’s no longer an official term, it’s an easy one-word distinction between my son, who definitely has trouble with ADLs and social cues yet goes to mainstream schools, and someone further down the spectrum who may be nonverbal and require serious accommodations for his or her whole life. The people I know who are in or around the Aspergian demographic have not banished the term at all. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/26 "2015-07-28T21:04:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Do you hear a difference between “a gay just asked me a question” and “a gay person just asked me a question”? Or “a black just knocked on my door” and “a black person just knocked on my door”? I know that I hear them as very different connotatively. Sure. But I do NOT hear much of a difference between “a gay person just asked me a question” and “a person who is gay just asked me a question”. Granted, if the question was absolutely unrelated to that person being gay, then it would be weird that I mentioned they were gay. But that would be true for either sentence. In the frequent SDMB cliche where one person says “this stupid fat guy just cut me off in traffic” and someone else says “hey, why was it relevant that he was fat?”, I don’t think it’s particularly more or less gratuitous if you phrase it as “this stupid guy, who was fat, just cut me off in traffic”. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/27 "2015-07-28T21:07:41Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > As noted, there and here, not every one in a wheelchair is…self-propellant, for want of a better word. But yes, anyone can be dis-abled under conditions which dis-able them. It’s right there in the word. It doesn’t mean ‘not normal’, it doesn’t mean ‘broken and worthless’. It means dis-abled. It’s often a simple matter to en-able. I’m still just not clear on why or when that verbal distinction would be useful. I’m not trying to be flip, here, but… So I know a guy who is in a wheelchair. And we’re walking (and rolling) down a sidewalk. And I say to him “hey, Fred, I just read an interesting article about the new addition to the Americans with Disabilities act… I’m curious what you think of it, as a disabled person?”. Would that in some sense be inaccurate, but it would NOT be inaccurate if I said that at the precise moment that he was having to deal with some jerk having taken the only handicapped parking space? Also, what’s the context in which people are saying or implying that disabled people are “broken and worthless”? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/28 "2015-07-28T21:15:46Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Sure. Okay. This is the quote I was responding to: > [@](#): > > I see what you’re saying, except that in both cases, if you use the “wrong” version, it still communicates the information just fine. But as I showed with my examples, communicating the information just fine isn’t always all that is going on. For good or ill, some things just sound better or worse or more or less respectful to some segments of the population. Here’s a real life example: As I said in either this thread or the first one, I work mostly in the elder community. In my area, saying someone is “wheelchair bound” is pretty common. Someone who is now frail and requires a wheelchair where they used not to require one. But in the disability community that we work with, “wheelchair bound” is not a preferred phrase. “Wheelchair user” is. Why? Because while the formerly-active senior citizen might view the wheelchair as what they are stuck with after a life of not having to use one, a person with a mobility disability might view the wheelchair as a tool that enables them to lead a more complete and fulfilling life. The senior citizen might feel trapped in the wheelchair while the person with the disability might feel liberated by it. So, while “wheelchair bound” is perfectly acceptable in my field, we use “wheelchair user” because it doesn’t have that negative slant. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/29 "2015-07-29T01:43:27Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Just for the record, I was the person in the thread who stated that in my experiences at work in our relationship with the disability community, person-first language such as “person with a disability” is generally preferred to identity-first language such as “disabled person” or identity-only language such as “the disabled.” (I work tangentially with the disability community. Most of my work is done with the elder community. Perhaps strangely, person-first language is rarely used when referring to members of the elder community, though such usage is not proscribed.) > > This has two big caveats: the Autistic community has some dispute about this but I believe identity-first language is more preferred at this time, e.g. “Autistic person” or “the Autistic.” > > I also believe identity-first language is more preferred in the Deaf community, e.g. “Deaf person” or “the Deaf.” I am not remotely as familiar with the Deaf community, so I welcome correction. > > (Individuals being individual, this does not in any way mean that any person cannot and does not have his or her own preferences for how they should be addressed or referred to.) Not claiming to speak for the Deaf community, but IME many people in that community are happy (sometimes proud) to identify as Deaf. The term ‘hearing impaired’ is seen as negative. I think they would also mostly agree that that they are only ‘disabled’ in certain situations, such as when trying to communicate with someone who doesn’t sign. Even then, they don’t have a disability as much as a communication problem. There is a difference between a ‘disabled person’ and a ‘person with a disability’. If you disable something, it doesn’t work any more. People with disabilities still function as people. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/30 "2015-07-29T02:07:13Z")
There’s almost never a consensus on words that’s going to please everyone. For instance the late [Stella Young](http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/comedy/melbourne-comedy-festival-causes-nervous-laughs-20140313-34o2a.html), disability activist, called herself a “crip”. So does [Liz Carr](http://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/jun/21/disability.socialcare). I wouldn’t recommend that to mainstream society though… In the Autism community, I’ve found that the people most likely to get on your case that you MUST say “person with Autism” are _parents_ of people with Autism, and the people most likely to say you MUST say “Autistic” are Autistic people themselves. So I lean towards not using person-first language - and in any case, it’s always sounded to me like tiptoeing round a negative, and therefore slightly less accepting. To take an example from upthread, if people started saying “person with homosexuality”, I think the gay community would find that a bit weird and possibly insulting. In any case, a combination of asking politely when a particular term is a big issue for you, responding politely to polite requests, and recognising that the people closest to the issue should get to set the tone, will cover 99% of cases pretty happily. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/31 "2015-08-02T16:36:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So, while “wheelchair bound” is perfectly acceptable in my field, we use “wheelchair user” because it doesn’t have that negative slant. Both “wheelchair bound” and “wheelchair user” are problematic. The correct words are “person who is wheelchair mobile” ([Bias-Free Language Guide claims the word ‘American’ is ‘problematic’](http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6697)) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/32 "2015-08-02T16:42:31Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Both “wheelchair bound” and “wheelchair user” are problematic. The correct words are “person who is wheelchair mobile” ([Bias-Free Language Guide claims the word ‘American’ is ‘problematic’](http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6697)) I’ll go with the people I work with. Thanks, though. I’m sure you’re trying to be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/33 "2015-08-02T16:48:38Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’ll go with the people I work with. Thanks, though. I’m sure you’re trying to be helpful. I’m figting problematic words. It’s taking longer than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/34 "2015-08-02T17:02:41Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (1) He claimed that “people with disabilities” is the preferred term, over “disabled people”. > > (a) What is the rationale behind this position? > (b) Is this a common/consensus view among the disabled community? Or would there be lots of other people/groups in that community who would be perfectly happy with “disabled person” or with some other term entirely? > (c) If this is in fact the consensus agreed-upon view, how offensive is “disabled people”? How doe it compare to, say, “crippled” or “handicapped”? (a) The point is that like any traditionally marginalized group, their distinquishing characteristic has been used for derision. Similarly, why would a person prefer “African-American” over “black” or “colored”? Because like “handicapped” or “disabled” the focus is on their characteristic and often was used in a negative way. (b) The only disabled community I am aware of is the deaf community. That is a whole thread in of itself. (c) How offensive is “retarded” although it is the term used for people of a certain IQ? Like my answer for (a), the terms retarded, crippled and handicapped have a negative connotation. When something is almost non-functioning it is crippled like a ship or a hand in a game of cards. If you are put at a disadvantaged you are handicapped. Why do you want those words associated with you? In fact I know some in the special education community who consider calling a person with a developmental disorder “retarded” as equivalent as calling an African-American a nigger simply because of the connotation involved. Personal note: I find it offensive when people refer to me as “special ed” when referring to my occupation. No I am a special ed _teacher_ just like you are an English _teacher_ or history _teacher_. ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/35 "2015-08-02T17:16:08Z")
What I do not understand is why the change was made from HANDCAPPED to DISABLED. In ordinary speech disabled means totally helpless, and I’m sure this is not intended. Why take an ordinary word and try to give it a new and different meaning? ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/36 "2015-08-02T17:17:58Z")
Also, why can’t I use italics or underline without {U}/{} etc.? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/37 "2015-08-12T14:52:33Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > … > (2) “someone whose illness, injury or condition requires a wheelchair often isn’t disabled until they reach the stairs” seems to be saying that being a paraplegic isn’t “being disabled”, rather, being a paraplegic _in a situation where being a paralegic actually stops you from doing what you’re trying to do_ is “being disabled”. > … This is known as the “social model of disability”, which simply states that a disability originates in how society places barriers against certain people. The other major model, the so-called “medical model of disability”, defines disability by hypothesizing the existence of a “fully functional” human being and then defining any divergence from that as a “disability”. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/38 "2015-08-12T14:58:59Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I’m not aware that any there is any such thing as the “disabled community”. I’ve know many disabled persons during my life; my grandfather was confined to a wheelchair for the last ten years of his life. None of these people ever notified me that they were members of the “disabled community”, and I doubt any ever thought of themself that way. Do you feel that your personal life experience is sufficient to represent the entirety of all people with disabilities? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/39 "2015-08-12T15:16:39Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > This is known as the “social model of disability”, which simply states that a disability originates in how society places barriers against certain people. The other major model, the so-called “medical model of disability”, defines disability by hypothesizing the existence of a “fully functional” human being and then defining any divergence from that as a “disability”. Interesting enough, both models have validity. So maybe there are times when one should clarify whether one is speaking of the social or medical form of disability. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356/40 "2015-08-12T17:23:15Z")
You can never go wrong if you think before you speak and try to be decent. Political correctness may have a bad name but everyone is all up in arms about it if they personally get insulted. So expand that to other people. Don’t insult them and if they ask you to call them by something else, do it. Don’t intentionally be a dick, is what I’m saying. Some people don’t care how you refer to them, some do. Err on the side of not being a dick [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-disabilities-vs-disabled-person-etc/726356.md?page=3)