# Person with gun. What are police supposed to do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738 "2014-11-27T02:18:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/61 "2014-11-27T22:25:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So the video posted above is a forgery, then? I watched the video. I could not see with any clarity what happened in the second or so between the car pulling up and the kid doubling over. According to the cop’s own account, the kid put his hand to tis waistband, where he had the replica. The account I read did not say the kid pulled it out. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/62 "2014-11-27T22:27:34Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m not aware of the police protocol with an active shooter in a park, are you? Do you think the police violated their protocol? > Not much use. Is that what you think happened? The kid was not an “active shooter”. The complaint was that the kid had been “scaring” people by brandishing the gun - not that he had shot any shots with it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/63 "2014-11-27T22:31:06Z")
Another possibility? He was trying to drop the gun and disarm himself, which would have been a natural reaction if cops are converging on you with weapons drawn. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/64 "2014-11-27T22:32:08Z")
OK. Revise the question to the protocol for a person brandishing a firearm in a park. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/65 "2014-11-27T22:34:21Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The kid was not an “active shooter”. The complaint was that the kid had been “scaring” people by brandishing the gun - not that he had shot any shots with it. Well, clearly a person waving a firearm around indiscriminately is no threat to anyone, and the cops overreacted by not waiting until he had killed anyone before using force. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/66 "2014-11-27T22:36:19Z")
No, they overreacted by killing him as quickly as they possibly could, without attempting to apprehend him peacefully. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/67 "2014-11-27T22:36:19Z")
OK, I watched the vid: so you have a possible handgun-armed suspect, and you pull up right up to his face, close enough for him to hand you your fries through your car window? It seems that had this been someone really packing heat with bad intentions he’d have put six to ten rounds into that police car before they came to a full stop. I dunno, ISTM it’s poor tactics for the very first move to be getting yourself pinned in a position of having absolutely no choice or alternate plan of action if anything other than\* instantaneous, absolute\* compliance happens in the first tenth of a second. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/68 "2014-11-27T22:52:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, clearly a person waving a firearm around indiscriminately is no threat to anyone, and the cops overreacted by not waiting until he had killed anyone before using force. Is that the _only_ other option you can possibly conceive of, **Smapti**? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/69 "2014-11-27T23:15:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is that the _only_ other option you can possibly conceive of, **Smapti**? You have been informed that a suspect has been brandishing a firearm in a public park. Upon arriving at the scene you observe the suspect with the firearm tucked into their waistband. When you command them to put their hands up, they respond by reaching for the firearm. What is the appropriate response? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/70 "2014-11-27T23:34:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You have been informed that a suspect has been brandishing a firearm in a public park. Upon arriving at the scene you observe the suspect with the firearm tucked into their waistband. When you command them to put their hands up, they respond by reaching for the firearm. > > What is the appropriate response? Find someone other than an avid police apologist to accurately and fully describe the situation to me? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/71 "2014-11-27T23:35:31Z")
Do you ever answer questions that are asked of you, Czarcasm, or is your thing Just Asking Questions? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/72 "2014-11-27T23:39:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Do you ever answer questions that are asked of you, Czarcasm, or is your thing Just Asking Questions? The question he asked left out the details that are in contention. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/73 "2014-11-27T23:44:04Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Do you ever answer questions that are asked of you, Czarcasm, or is your thing Just Asking Questions? Why all the fucking hypotheticals? There was no issuing commands here. There was no reaching for anything here. But the answer is never, ever going to be “Screech to a halt right next to the suspect and start shooting as you are falling out your door.” ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/74 "2014-11-27T23:51:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The question he asked left out the details that are in contention. I was referring to post #60. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/75 "2014-11-27T23:54:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Why all the fucking hypotheticals? There was no issuing commands here. There was no reaching for anything here. > > But the answer is never, ever going to be “Screech to a halt right next to the suspect and start shooting as you are falling out your door.” What hypotheticals? The one you pose that they _“Screech to a halt right next to the suspect and start shooting as you are falling out your door”_. That wasn’t present in the video so it seems you are concocting some kind of hypothetical yourself. The officers state that they issued commands to raise hands 3 times as they were driving up. The officers claim and it appears to me when watching the video that the boy reached for his waist area. Do you dispute the officer’s claim and what is shown in the video? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/76 "2014-11-28T00:00:35Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m not aware of the police protocol with an active shooter in a park, are you? Do you think the police violated their protocol? > Not much use. Is that what you think happened? If the claim is being made that the boy was told three times when they arrived to put his hands up, and the police also claim that they fired their weapons 1 and a half to 2 seconds after arriving, then somebody is full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/77 "2014-11-28T00:00:40Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > What hypotheticals? The one you pose that they _“Screech to a halt right next to the suspect and start shooting as you are falling out your door”_. That wasn’t present in the video so it seems you are concocting some kind of hypothetical yourself. > > The officers state that they issued commands to raise hands 3 times as they were driving up. The officers claim and it appears to me when watching the video that the boy reached for his waist area. Do you dispute the officer’s claim and what is shown in the video? I dispute their claims. I do not dispute the video. The video is clear. The kid is just standing there. The cop in the passenger seat literally falls out the door shooting. You can see him picking himself up near the back bumper of the car. Are they now claiming that they were yelling their commands out of a speeding car? That’s another fucking stupid thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/78 "2014-11-28T00:10:31Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > No. Tasers are a less lethal response to a non lethal threat among other things. No. My characterization was very precise. Tasers were _meant_, were specifically promoted, as a way to reduce the lethality of police response. To be used in some of the situations in which an officer without a taser would have no alternative but lethal force. > [@](#): > > If there is a lethal threat then force must be met with force. Just like you don’t bring a knife to a gun fight, you don’t use a taser in a gun fight either. But there was no gun fight here. Even in the presence of an actual gun, there need not always be a gun fight. Surely you do not dispute that good officers can, often, handle (actually) armed suspects without killing them–perhaps without even drawing? Do you hold that _a citizen with a gun_ should always be construed as “a lethal threat,” to be met with lethal-force response? Not sure exactly what the protocol for pulling up right next to the kid was, but just commenting on the 1.5 - 2 seconds vs. 5 seconds. 5 seconds is a long time. A person can cover a lot of ground in 5 seconds, and can do a lot in 5 seconds. It’s enough time to draw, aim, and fire. Try it yourself. If you are recommending that a police officer wait 5 seconds when the person in front of them appears to be drawing a gun on them, that would be very bad for officer safety. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/79 "2014-11-28T01:40:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Are they now claiming that they were yelling their commands out of a speeding car? That’s another fucking stupid thing to do. I think that the cops here screwed up, but I would like to point out that cop cars are equipped with loudspeakers. I’ve had them give me instructions over it while we were both in cars heading down the freeway, and I heard them fine. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738/80 "2014-11-28T01:51:10Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > Are cop cars modified to provide protection or is that just a fictional thing? The Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor was available with armored doors as an extra-cost option. I have no idea what percentage were ordered with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/person-with-gun-what-are-police-supposed-to-do/705738.md?page=5)