# Personal attacks v. Personal attacks **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 22, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331 "2019-05-22T02:35:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/1 "2019-05-22T02:35:56Z")
I am referring to this thread regarding abortion where HurricaneDitka was given a warning for personal attacks. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21655343&postcount=518](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21655343&postcount=518) Fine, he singled out another poster by name. However, several posters in the thread identified as being pro-life, yet many posts were made to the effect of how pro-lifers do not really mean what they say lest they would be bombing more abortion clinics. Or another post, in a thread with people who voted for Trump, saying that “MAGAbots” were just like Nazis and outside the realm of debate and civil discourse should no longer apply. I understand that the rule is “attack the post, not the poster” and that people not on the board can be personally attacked, but this, IMHO elevates form over substance. Is it just rules lawyering? I can say as many nasty things I want about a belief system which the poster before me just stated he belonged to? The only thing is to not name the poster? If instead of naming the poster, HurricaneDitka substituted the word “liberals” for the poster’s name, would everything have been okay? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/2 "2019-05-22T04:22:06Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I am referring to this thread regarding abortion where HurricaneDitka was given a warning for personal attacks. No he wasn’t. The warning clearly says it was for accusing another poster of lying. > [@Georgia governor signs strictest abortion bill in nation](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/518): > > This is a warning for accusing another poster of lying. Asserting someone asserts a position they do not hold (pretend) in order to deceive (inconvenient to the argument) fits the criteria. Don’t personalize arguments in this fashion. > > [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/3 "2019-05-22T06:08:12Z")
I was wondering about this warning too. A few posts above the warning is this post: > [@Georgia governor signs strictest abortion bill in nation](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/georgia-governor-signs-strictest-abortion-bill-in-nation/833659/513): > > I love how the go-to example for how “the government forces us to give up our rights” is something that hasn’t been relevant for about twice the length of my life and almost certainly never will be again. > > Honestly I don’t know why people engage with pro-life arguments as though they’re made in good faith. By and large? They aren’t. The pro-life side lies. Constantly, remorselessly, and with a smile on their face. They lie about what they care about. They lie about what they believe. They lie about the effects their policies will have. [They went to court to ensure they could keep lying to people about what kind of health care facility they’re entering](https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/national-institute-family-life-advocates-v-becerra/). > > There’s this desperate liberal belief to act as though any given confrontation can be handled with honest debate on the merits. With all due respect, we need to cut that shit out, because it has never been true and fascists will abuse that instinct until the cows come home. The way to win this argument is to treat pro-lifers the way the catholic church treats an 11-year-old who gets raped. Shun, deplatform, ignore. Don’t take their shit seriously. Don’t treat it like it’s meant as a serious argument. It isn’t. The reference in the first line to “the go-to example for how “the government forces us to give up our rights” is something that hasn’t been relevant for about twice the length of my life and almost certainly never will be again” is clearly a reference to my posts. He goes on to question why people “engage with pro-life arguments” and then uses some variation of “lie” five times. What gives? The paper-thin veneer of “they” is enough of an impersonalization that it’s not considered an accusation of lying? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/4 "2019-05-22T10:28:31Z")
I didn’t accuse you of lying. I think the movement as a whole is built on lies from top to bottom, but I have no idea whether you’re one of those true believers who take it all in, or whether you’re just stirring the pot. I mean, the comparison to the draft was so painfully bad as to not be worth addressing, and is exactly the kind of thing one might expect a movement with nothing to go on but lies to hold on to, but for all I know, you’re saying that because you honestly believe it, and you know what? Good on you for sticking to your principles. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/5 "2019-05-22T10:37:52Z")
(For anyone who finds that questionable, imagine I’m talking to Kellyanne Conway about the Trump administration and she’s making an argument that Trump had the biggest election turnout ever or something similarly inane. Or that I’m talking to a YEC and they’re bringing up moon dust.) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/6 "2019-05-22T13:24:15Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I didn’t accuse you of lying. I think the movement as a whole is built on lies from top to bottom, but I have no idea whether you’re one of those true believers who take it all in, or whether you’re just stirring the pot. I mean, the comparison to the draft was so painfully bad as to not be worth addressing, and is exactly the kind of thing one might expect a movement with nothing to go on but lies to hold on to, but for all I know, you’re saying that because you honestly believe it, and you know what? Good on you for sticking to your principles. 🙂 This is the same sort of nonsense sideways-slaps that have gotten others in trouble, BPC. “All X are terrible garbage people! Oh? YOU’RE an X? Who knew?” You should really try to rein that in or it could get you in real trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/7 "2019-05-22T15:44:18Z")
There was just a Mod note on that post. I don’t understand. If I have a post that says “Republicans lie all the time about everything”, will that similarly be noted as “close to calling Republican board members liars”? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/8 "2019-05-22T15:48:24Z")
It appears that the frustration of some Dopers that [ul][li]Trump is still President, and **HurricaneDitka** won’t post in the Pit[/ul]is spilling over into other forums. [/li] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/9 "2019-05-22T17:04:52Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > There was just a Mod note on that post. I don’t understand. If I have a post that says “Republicans lie all the time about everything”, will that similarly be noted as “close to calling Republican board members liars”? [I’ve written about this previously here (added the “not” in the quote):](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20357217&postcount=23) Group insults do \*not \*lend themselves to bright line rules. In discussions all across the Great Debates and Elections there are disparaging comments towards groups that it is clear from past posting history that some of our posters are members of. Insults towards Republicans, Democrats, and libertarians abound and while I personally am not a fan of sweeping generalizations, it’s not something that I’d prefer to moderate. It is when the attack on a group is inseparable from an attack on a poster where a person can run afoul of the rules. This would be context dependent. I gave an example in post #3 where a group insult would be inseparable from a personal insult towards another poster. On the other hand, we often have posts along the lines of _‘Democrats are thieves because they want to tax all our money away!’_, or _‘Republicans are racists who hate the poor!’_. Both of those are childish and add little to productive discussion, but probably not something I’d moderate for personal insults (withholding judgment for other potential violations). However, depending on the direction of the thread, if it’s clear that the intent is to disparage other posters by adding the veneer of the group insult, then that would be moderated. In general I’d avoid sweeping generalizations since they are often false. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/10 "2019-05-22T17:13:22Z")
Fair enough. I don’t necessarily agree, but thanks for explaining the reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/11 "2019-05-22T18:51:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It appears that the frustration of some Dopers that [ul][li]Trump is still President, and [\*] **HurricaneDitka** won’t post in the Pit[/ul]is spilling over into other forums. [/li] > Regards, > Shodan Are you saying that these are the reasons that **HurricaneDitka** earned a warning? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/12 "2019-05-22T19:14:56Z")
No, it’s the reason that some Dopers start rants outside the Pit, and also why some Dopers are trying to bait **HurricaneDitka** into getting warnings. Read the **HD** Pit thread. One Doper is taking credit for setting **HD** up to get the warning. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/13 "2019-05-22T19:28:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s the reason that some Dopers start rants outside the Pit, and also why some Dopers are trying to bait **HurricaneDitka** into getting warnings. Read the **HD** Pit thread. One Doper is taking credit for setting **HD** up to get the warning. > > Regards, > Shodan Stop baiting, Dopers! You better not be baiting… No more baiting! I mean it! Stop that baiting right now! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/14 "2019-05-22T19:51:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s the reason that some Dopers start rants outside the Pit, and also why some Dopers are trying to bait **HurricaneDitka** into getting warnings. Read the **HD** Pit thread. One Doper is taking credit for setting **HD** up to get the warning. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m a master baiter. And no, I’m not taking credit. It’s a joke. I in no way posted anything in that thread in an attempt to have a poster get a warning. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/15 "2019-05-22T19:55:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s the reason that some Dopers start rants outside the Pit, and also why some Dopers are trying to bait **HurricaneDitka** into getting warnings. Read the **HD** Pit thread. One Doper is taking credit for setting **HD** up to get the warning. Except that **iiandyiiii** said something quite reasonable, not directed at **HD** at all, and he decided to call **iiandyiiii** a lying racist troll pretty much out of the blue. So are you accusing **andy** of having some X-Men-like level of mind control? If that’s the case, excuse me because I need to go cut out enough boxtops to get his brochure on his amazing psy powers, so I can apply them in my everyday life. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/16 "2019-05-22T19:58:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s the reason that some Dopers start rants outside the Pit, and also why some Dopers are trying to bait **HurricaneDitka** into getting warnings. Read the **HD** Pit thread. One Doper is taking credit for setting **HD** up to get the warning. > > Regards, > Shodan That’s frankly ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/17 "2019-05-22T20:26:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s the reason that some Dopers start rants outside the Pit, and also why some Dopers are trying to bait **HurricaneDitka** into getting warnings. Read the **HD** Pit thread. One Doper is taking credit for setting **HD** up to get the warning. > > Regards, > Shodan As **manson1972** says, that was quite obviously a joke. And if that was “baiting someone into getting a warning,” then many of **HurricaneDitka’s** posts would quality as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/18 "2019-05-22T20:48:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s the reason that some Dopers start rants outside the Pit, and also why some Dopers are trying to bait **HurricaneDitka** into getting warnings. Read the **HD** Pit thread. One Doper is taking credit for setting **HD** up to get the warning. > > Regards, > Shodan When you look at it this way, what choice did **HurricaneDitka** have? When you look at it this ridiculous way. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/19 "2019-05-23T02:02:12Z")
I sometimes feel that HD gets unnecessarily roughed up a little by a left-leaning board, but that was a pretty vile thing to say to iiandiii. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331/20 "2019-05-23T16:59:53Z")
My feeling on the subject is that “baiting someone into getting a warning” is Hurricane Ditka’s personal mission on the SDMB. I really think that the next time he starts another thread that’s a variant on “Why liberals hate America”, it should be immediately moved to the Pit. Even though he’s too cowardly to post there. Toughen up or don’t play. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-attacks-v-personal-attacks/834331.md?page=2)