# Personal experience in SDMB debates (a bit long) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 14, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091 "2003-02-14T17:33:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/41 "2003-02-14T20:00:42Z")
Right you are **Munch**. For further proof you could check out the FAQ that the good Reverend linked to. Section II, questions 5 and 6. Seems like he didn’t read the fucking FAQ. ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Mykeru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@Reverend\_Mykeru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Mykeru)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/42 "2003-02-14T20:08:16Z")
**Munch** > [@](#): > > No, you fucking puss monkey, the actual mentioning of Hitler is the invocation. You did the mentioning, therefore you did the invoking. I don’t fault you for having a loose grasp of language. I commend you for graduating from Yerkes Elementary School into the real world where you don’t always get a slice of apple evertime you press the right button, intentionally or not. I look forward to your random typing of Hamlet which will become available, I assume, some time before the heat death of the universe. I do, however, fault you for wearing your ignorance like a badge of honor and waving it around like some deviant at a nudist camp wearing an obvious prosthetic shlong. Now. “invoke”: > [@](#): > > in·voke ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-vk) > tr.v. in·voked, in·vok·ing, in·vokes > To call on (a higher power) for assistance, support, or inspiration: “Stretching out her hands she had the air of a Greek woman who invoked a deity” (Ford Madox Ford). > To appeal to or cite in support or justification. > To call for earnestly; solicit: invoked the help of a passing motorist. > To summon with incantations; conjure. > To resort to; use or apply: “Shamelessly, he invokes coincidence to achieve ironic effect” (Newsweek). > Computer Science. To activate or start (a program, for example). I made a reference to fascists and murderers, However, the invoking of Godwin’s Law in the literal sense of “To appeal to or cite in support or justification” was done by Trion, not me. Words don’t mean whatever _you_ want them to mean at any given time. They actually have meaning all by themselves and you know, for hundreds of years people have written these meanings down in books without asking your opinion. Feel free to print out this post, roll it in a tight cylinder and shove it up your sphincter to to break the vacuum keeping your head up there. And you are welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/43 "2003-02-14T20:08:25Z")
So many of the world’s problems could have been averted had those involved just read the fucking FAQ. At least that’s what Hitler said. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/44 "2003-02-14T20:13:08Z")
_sigh_ Okay, I’ll bite. Let’s use your definition of “invoke”. So you’re trying to say that the first person to actually utter the words “Godwin’s Law” is the actual invoker? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/45 "2003-02-14T20:14:54Z")
Wow, i seem to have unleashed something of a monster with this thread. I specifically started a new thread so we could get away from the issue of whether or not Pat Robertson is an asshole and have a civilized discussion about the broader issue of personal experience as a factor in rational debate. But, hell, who am i to tell people what to say. Carry on! ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Mykeru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@Reverend\_Mykeru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Mykeru)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/46 "2003-02-14T20:16:05Z")
**Trion** I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are actively attempting to feign complete obtuseness rather than assume that you do, in fact, have a couple extra chromosomes: > [@](#): > > 1. What should I do if somebody else invokes Godwin’s Law? > > The obvious response is to call them on it, say “thread’s over”, > and declare victory. This is also one of the stupidest possible responses, because it involves believing far too much in the power of a few rules that don’t say exactly what you wish they said anyway. The proper response to an invocation is probably to simply followup with a message saying “Oh. > I’m a Nazi? Sure. Bye” and leave, and in most cases even that much of a post is unnecessary. > > 1. “Hitler!” Ha! The thread is over! > > Nope, doesn’t work that way. Not only is it wrong to say that a > thread is over when Godwin’s Law is invoked anyway (Usenet threads virtually always outlive their usefulness), but long ago a corollary to the Law was proposed and accepted by Taki “Quirk” Kogama ([quirk@swcp.com](mailto:quirk@swcp.com)): > > Quirk’s Exception: Intentional invocation of this so-called > “Nazi Clause” is ineffectual. > > Sorry, folks. Nice try, though. #5 only applies when someone specifically calls someone else a Nazi, not merely referencing fascists, dipshit. #6, who said the thread is over? Not me. Why bother citing things that have absolutely nothing to do with anything except, maybe, to give you some sort of rhetorical fig leaf? Hey, nice way to hijack a thread by invoking Godwin’s Law, fuckwit. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/47 "2003-02-14T20:17:14Z")
Has it ever occurred to you, **Reverend Mykeru** , that it might be harmful to yourself to harbor so much hate? It’s not healthy at all, as far as the stress that usually happens along with such raptures. Nor is it healthy to your reputation, for that matter. If you are here when this ends, you might consider changing your name or something. ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Mykeru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@Reverend\_Mykeru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Mykeru)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/48 "2003-02-14T20:17:21Z")
**Munch** > [@](#): > > Okay, I’ll bite. Let’s use your definition of “invoke”. > > So you’re trying to say that the first person to actually utter the words “Godwin’s Law” is the actual invoker? Yes! He can be taught! ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/49 "2003-02-14T20:17:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reverend Mykeru \* > Interesting, considering that Ghandi was assassinated by a Hindu fanatic who could not forgive Gandhi for his belief that Muslims had equal value to Hindus. Okay … and that has what relevance to anything? Gandhi preached about peace. He was killed by a religious zealot. > [@](#): > > Do the comments of Robertson seem closer to Gahndi or to his killer? Were you trying to make sense? > [@](#): > > And don’t forget that Pat thinks that people should be absolved of all sorts of crimes if a church tribuneral thinks they were following the orders of God. Look. If you’re trying to get support for the sentiment “Pat Robertson’s done a lot of shitty things and thinks a lot of shitty things as well”, you don’t have to look far here. However, cancer doesn’t affect just the one whose body is infected. And, if **nothing** else, you’ve shown absolutely no cause why anyone whose life is being affected in a negative way by this should have to suffer just because Robertson’s a dick. > [@](#): > > Then again, consider how much his family has benefited from his being a complete piece of shit. How about, since you’re so good at finding information on this in-ter-net, you dig up some information for us all about this? > [@](#): > > Hey, you know what? Everything touches everything. You think the people who had diabetes or cancer or emphasyma or any other number of chronic and fatal conditions who allowed Robertson to siphon off their savings under the false promise of a cure if they could “get right with God” didn’t have family who were affected? Yeah, and that surely does suck. Here’s my question to you: the doctor who had to tell Robertson “Mr. Robertson, you’ve got prostate cancer.” What did _he_ do that warranted having to tell a man he had cancer? How about a hypothetical ex-flame of Robertson’s, who’s done no evil worthy of this sort of thing. Now she finds out this guy she used to adore has prostate cancer. Tell us, now … what did she do to deserve this pain she now has? One evil does not warrant another. > [@](#): > > How do you know that every single person in Robertson’s life is feeling pain? Well, if they’re _happy_ about his cancer, that’d surely be news to a lot of us here… > [@](#): > > If his family is anything like him, maybe they are praying for him to die so they can take over the business and get a nice fat insurance settlement. Explain, please. Or, if you’d rather, just admit this makes no sense. Your choice. > [@](#): > > I still have more sympathy for the families of all the people who died because they ignored cancer and threw away medication under Robertson’s influence. More sympathy for them than for Robertson … that I can understand. However, you’ve got to explore this same “families of” concept in the case of Robertson. He’s not an old, miserable, lonely man. He’s got a family, he’s got friends, colleagues, all that. **This isn’t just his to deal with**. In other news, we have isolated the reading comprehension disease (well, mostly). **Reverend Mykeru** , I’m sorry to have to tell you this, but … it’s terminal. You can’t comprehend the written word to save your (Og only knows how) anointed behind. However will **your family** deal? How will **your friends** handle this news? What did **they** do to deserve this pain they must now bear? Think about that. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/50 "2003-02-14T20:19:42Z")
One more question for you, **Reverend**. Does the sun rise in the east or the west for you? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/51 "2003-02-14T20:21:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reverend Mykeru \* > \*\ ***Munch** > > Yes! He can be taught! \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reverend Mykeru \* > 5. What should I do if somebody else invokes Godwin’s Law? > > The obvious response is to call them on it, say “thread’s over”, > and declare victory. This is also one of the stupidest possible responses, because it involves believing far too much in the power of a few rules that don’t say exactly what you wish they said anyway. **The proper response to an invocation is probably to simply followup with a message saying “Oh. > I’m a Nazi? Sure. Bye”** and leave, and in most cases even that much of a post is unnecessary. The above implies that the invoker of GL is the person who first referenced Hitler (as evidenced by the bolded phrase). > [@](#): > > 1. “Hitler!” Ha! The thread is over! > > Nope, doesn’t work that way. **Not only is it wrong to say that a > thread is over when Godwin’s Law is invoked anyway** (Usenet threads virtually always outlive their usefulness), but long ago a corollary to the Law was proposed and accepted by Taki “Quirk” Kogama ([quirk@swcp.com](mailto:quirk@swcp.com)): > > Quirk’s Exception: Intentional invocation of this so-called > “Nazi Clause” is ineffectual. > > Sorry, folks. Nice try, though. Same here. Read the fucking FAQ, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Mykeru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@Reverend\_Mykeru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Mykeru)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/52 "2003-02-14T20:22:35Z")
**Joe K** > [@](#): > > Has it ever occurred to you, Reverend Mykeru, that it might be harmful to yourself to harbor so much hate? Is it just me or is there the stink of patchouli? And why am I hearing bad ambient music over rain and thunder with tropical birds in the background? > [@](#): > > It’s not healthy at all, as far as the stress that usually happens along with such raptures. Has it occurred to you that you are probably just repressed? > [@](#): > > Nor is it healthy to your reputation, for that matter. If you are here when this ends, you might consider changing your name or something. Yes. I will do that. I would hate to carry the albotross around my neck of being the guy that said _gasp_ bad things about _Pat Robertson_ on the Straight Dope Message Board, or risk the inevitable response: “Who? What? And where’s that?” ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Mykeru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@Reverend\_Mykeru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Mykeru)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/53 "2003-02-14T20:24:53Z")
**Munch** Backtrack and read my previous post on #5 and #6 and then go back and read the actual definition of the word “invoke” rather than your sad face-saving attempt to parse it out of the FAQ. Again, words don’t mean whatever you want them to mean. Moron. ---
**Author:** ![BURNER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@BURNER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BURNER)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/54 "2003-02-14T20:25:37Z")
> [@](#): > > More sympathy for them than for Robertson … that I can understand. However, you’ve got to explore this same “families of” concept in the case of Robertson. He’s not an old, miserable, lonely man. He’s got a family, he’s got friends, colleagues, all that. This isn’t just his to deal with. In **Reverend Mykeru’s** defense, most people hang around people who are like them. So good old Pat Robertson probably hangs out with a bunch of close minded fundamentalist types who actualy BELIEVE the stuff Pat says about god and the universe at large. Kind of like how people in the ACLU believe in equality or people in Amnestey International believe in human rights. So if the people in Pats family and circle of friends all think like he does and all believe like he does, then why dont they deserve to suffer like he does?? If they support him then they are just as guilty as he is. Why should they get the consideration that wasnt shown to the familys of the victims of sept.11th? ---
**Author:** ![Reverend\_Mykeru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@Reverend\_Mykeru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverend_Mykeru)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/55 "2003-02-14T20:29:31Z")
**BURNER** > [@](#): > > Why should they get the consideration that wasnt shown to the familys of the victims of sept.11th? Because Pat and Jerry were doing God’s work in using the charred limbs of 3,000 innocent people as a stick to beat the godless feminist faggots. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/56 "2003-02-14T20:30:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reverend Mykeru \* > words don’t mean whatever you want them to mean. > > Moron. This board is not your personal “notes to self” drop box. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/57 "2003-02-14T20:30:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are actively attempting to feign complete obtuseness rather than assume that you do, in fact, have a couple extra chromosomes: Don’t do me any favors. Munch and I were discussing the proper usage of the word “invoke’. I was pointing out that the first person to mention Nazis or Hitler are considered to be the ones invoking Godwin’s Law _based on how it is explained in the FAQ you linked to._. In other words, your FAQ is using the word “invoke” in the same way I was. **The only reason I was refering to #5 and #6 was to demonstrate the word usage. Not for any other reason.** If you’d like to tell me that your FAQ was wrong, fine with me. BTW, the Mirraim-Webster online dictionary gives me the following for invoke: > [@](#): > > 4 : to put into effect or operation Seems to be the way that the FAQ and I were using the word. > [@](#): > > Hey, nice way to hijack a thread by invoking Godwin’s Law, fuckwit. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/58 "2003-02-14T20:36:03Z")
Now, boys. I’d give **Libertarian** the credit for the hijack, beating out **Mykeru** by five minutes and one post. **Mykeru** gets the assist, as he’s done the most to keep this from returning to the original point. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/59 "2003-02-14T20:44:57Z")
OK **2trew**. I shall no longer contribute to the hijack and shall leave the thread. After all, I have been frowned upon. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091/60 "2003-02-14T20:47:16Z")
This is becoming painful, and not just because the good Reverend’s ass is so tight. I’m going to make this very simple. Again, from the FAQ: [ul]So, what this means in practical terms: [li] If someone **brings up Nazis** in general conversation when it wasn’t necessary or germane without it necessarily being an insult, it’s probably about time for the thread to end.[/li][li] If someone **brings up Nazis** in general conversation when it was vaguely related but is basically being used as an insult, the speaker can be considered to be flaming and not debating. [/li][li]If someone **brings up Nazis** in any conversation that has been going on too long for one of the parties, it can be used as a fair excuse to end the thread and declare victory for the other side.[/ul][/li] Regardless, you’re still exhibiting signs of being a complete jackass, who seems to think that human sympathy is a zero-sum game in which you have a limited amount which you need to parcel out to a limited number of people. You also seem to think that people actually seek out your sympathy, and would notice if you didn’t show up for the family reunion. Thanks for playing though, I always enjoy learning new and creative ways to massacre the english language and basic tenets of logic and reasoning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-experience-in-sdmb-debates-a-bit-long/155091.md?page=4)