# Personal information on half the UK? It was around here somewhere... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2007, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293 "2007-11-21T06:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/1 "2007-11-21T06:28:38Z")
[UK Bank data of millions missing](http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/20/britain.personal.ap/index.html) [Private details of EVERY family in Britain ‘lost’ by taxman in major security blunder](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=495188&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&ct=5&expand=true) Jesus fucking christ. Can we bring back defenestration? > [@](#): > > Britain’s tax and customs service lost banking and personal data of 25 million people – nearly half the country’s population – when two computer disks disappeared in an internal mail service, the Treasury chief said Tuesday. > > … > > The information on the disks included the names of parents and children, their addresses, dates of birth, national insurance numbers and banking details. So, if you’ve done nothing wrong, you’ve got nothing to worry about, right? I’m curious to know just how much info is covered under “banking details” . ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/2 "2007-11-21T06:44:11Z")
I very much doubt it’s anything more than the details printed on every cheque and debit card, i.e. account number & sort code (i.e. branch number). The details needed to be able to pay money _to_ somebody, not take it _from_ them. Having it matched up with dates of birth etc. makes it useful information for phishing scams in particular, but you couldn’t start dipping into people’s accounts with just that information. And in any case, it’s almost certainly been just put on the wrong person’s desk rather than some sinister organised-crime scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/3 "2007-11-21T06:45:44Z")
I hope you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/4 "2007-11-21T07:01:20Z")
Just came off the phone to my credit card company…a fraudulent transaction on my account…arrrrrghggh, they’ve stolen my identity!! DailyMailGordonBrownImmigrantsPoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad!!1!1 😉 No, wait, I don’t receive child benefit, it might be completely unrelated… (True about the payment using my card though. Still, it stops me spending any money for a few days while they get me a new card, which can only be a good thing!) ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/5 "2007-11-21T11:30:05Z")
Just fucking incredible. So - some junior screw-up sent this via TNT (the private carrier contracted to handle inter-departmental mail, nice one private sector) rather than recorded delivery. And they managed to lose it in the half mile between addresses. Okay - you can’t hold Darling (the Minister in whose remit the department falls) responsible for what every person does but you can say loud and clear - THIS IS WHY THE NATIONAL IDENTITY CARD (and the National NHS Records Scheme) are BAD bloody ideas. You can’t guarantee security. You can’t stop ass-hats being ass-hats or poorly paid staff being corrupted in the same way police officers are corrupted by private detectives seeking police records for clients. And you certainly can’t rely on ‘unbreakable’ security features on the ID Cards. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/6 "2007-11-21T12:24:25Z")
Correction to the above. Contrary to news reports yesterday the discs were travelling from tyne & wear to London. Still no friggin’ excuse for TNT to lose the package or it to go adrift at the other end. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/7 "2007-11-21T13:03:23Z")
It’s all right, I’ve [found](http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290184203092)them! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/8 "2007-11-21T13:09:27Z")
**GorillaMan** , according to BBC radio news there are also National Insurance numbers for every adult on the list, as well as dates of birth, addresses, and bank account details. Quite enough info to cause havoc. Having worked on the fringes of the civil service, I have to agree with **tagos**. Screw-up not conspiracy, but screw-ups are _everywhere_, and the ability to screw things up good-and-proper increases with every new bit of data that is centralised. That said, I’ve also worked for a courier company, and I’d imagine the missing CDs are actually stuck to a mouldy ham sandwich inside some biker’s top-box. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/9 "2007-11-21T13:27:26Z")
Hopefully this puts the kibosh on the ID card plans. The PM can have no credible response to criticisms over data security when his own personal details are out there somewhere (assuming he and his wife are claiming their child benefit). ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/10 "2007-11-21T13:29:53Z")
According to BBC news this morning, the data also contains copies of signatures. ID cards are [surely] dead in the water. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/11 "2007-11-21T15:01:18Z")
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan] According to BBC news this morning, the data also contains copies of signatures. ID cards are [surely] dead in the water. [/QUOTE] You’d think and hope but they are so wedded to their hysterical war on terrorism and how much safer these ‘uncrackable’ cards :rolleyes: will be that it won’t have any effect. IMHO the only way these cards will protect us from terrorists is if they are 7 feet high, made out of Kevlar and have handy straps for carrying affixed to your forearm. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/12 "2007-11-21T16:49:18Z")
Is it fair to blame the government for this cock-up? Sounds like a pretty workaday problem, a demonstration of the fallibility of administration systems. If the Tories got in power over these sorts of blunders, wouldn’t largely the same bunch of civil servants remain in their jobs? ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/13 "2007-11-21T16:49:23Z")
Wow, you have a Minister Darling? Cool! [sub]Oh, and sorry your info went missing.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/14 "2007-11-21T17:03:57Z")
[QUOTE=Staggerlee] Is it fair to blame the government for this cock-up? Sounds like a pretty workaday problem, a demonstration of the fallibility of administration systems. If the Tories got in power over these sorts of blunders, wouldn’t largely the same bunch of civil servants remain in their jobs? [/QUOTE] We can blame the Govt for the careless merger of the two organisations. We can blame them for slash and burn job cuts if that resulted in the error. We can certainly blame them for not drawing the obvious inferences regarding the ID Card and national NHS database. Yes - there always will be human error, incompetence and malfeasance. That’s why the govt, no matter what party, cannot be trusted with our data. Witness the case a few months ago where temporary staff in a hospital were given a shared login to the NHS system and the abuses that followed. At least the tories are opposed to the Identity Card and the NHS schemes. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/15 "2007-11-21T17:08:40Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] IMHO the only way these cards will protect us from terrorists is if they are 7 feet high, made out of Kevlar and have handy straps for carrying affixed to your forearm. [/QUOTE] I think you mean lexan rather than kevlar, but other than that nitpick you’re damned right. Fuck biometric ID cards and every arsehole who supports them, the only bastards they’ll benefit will be whichever IT firm bribes enough MP’s to get the contract, for what will be an open ended, budget overruning nightmare that will make even the current NHS IT fiasco look like a cheap exercise in bureaucracy. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/16 "2007-11-21T17:12:36Z")
[QUOTE=Encinitas] Wow, you have a Minister Darling? Cool! [/QUOTE] A whole variety of new Blackadder lines stem from all this, such as: _So who’s responsible for this cock-up, Darling?_ ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/17 "2007-11-21T17:14:11Z")
[QUOTE=Encinitas] Wow, you have a Minister Darling? Cool! [/QUOTE] We’ve also got a Balls. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/18 "2007-11-21T17:19:31Z")
Can I just say that I’m always astounded at the speed at which computer hardware and software continue to improve. Info on \*25 million people \* on only _two_ disks! Oh, and yeah, someone better hang for this. ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/19 "2007-11-21T17:20:21Z")
It’s okay. The information on the disks is _password_ protected! There was an amusing interview on BBC News yesterday. They were asking a, presumably well informed, guy some questions about what people should do now. They asked him if, now that the information is ‘out there’, people who have their bank passwords the same as their children’s name should change them… … … I’m sure they’ll try and pin it on the low-level civil servant that sent them out. I bet Gordon is _really_ fucking glad he decided not to call the election now. This would have handed it straight to the Tories. It still might. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293/20 "2007-11-21T17:22:53Z")
[QUOTE=MJinks] I bet Gordon is _really_ fucking glad he decided not to call the election now. This would have handed it straight to the Tories. It still might. [/QUOTE] It’s certainly looking like the dying years of the Major government. Cock up after cock up leaving the electorate to sullenly count the days until they can boot them out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/personal-information-on-half-the-uk-it-was-around-here-somewhere/427293.md?page=2)