# Persuade me that deafness & hearing impairment are not best thought of as disabilities. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370 "2011-05-26T23:36:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/181 "2011-06-02T11:13:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s not a disease, no. It’s a condition that can cause a lot of problems Yeah, causes problems when people who can hear get judgmental or discriminate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/182 "2011-06-02T11:20:16Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Yeah, causes problems when people who can hear get judgmental or discriminate. That can cause problems, and I’ve said repeatedly that that’s unfortunate, and that being judgmental about it is wrong. But the big problem isn’t that hearing people are judgmental, it’s that hearing is a major part of how most people communicate and deal with the world and deaf people can’t use it. I hope this isn’t intended to imply I’m being judgmental and discriminatory. ---
**Author:** ![justanotherdeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/77aa72/32.png) [@justanotherdeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanotherdeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/183 "2011-06-02T11:21:45Z")
It wouldn’t really matter because some surgeons will not implant children who will not be using it effectively. - heavy sign language environment. They do not want to put those children at risk for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/184 "2011-06-02T11:23:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That can cause problems, and I’ve said repeatedly that that’s unfortunate, and that being judgmental about it is wrong. But the big problem isn’t that hearing people are judgmental, it’s that hearing is a major part of how most people communicate and deal with the world and deaf people can’t use it. I hope this isn’t intended to imply I’m being judgmental and discriminatory. Deaf people adapt. Hearing people adapt. It works. Telephone, email, movies, education, interpreters, electronics…it’s not hard. It’s just part of your life. It doesn’t mean that deaf people don’t have issues sometimes, or that things aren’t frustrating, but such is life. And a CI isn’t going to fix that.\* You’re coming at it from a hearing perspective. It isn’t just that you hear - it is that you can’t understand how people could go through life without hearing. You depend on it. It’s how \*you \*operate. \*for most. ---
**Author:** ![justanotherdeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/77aa72/32.png) [@justanotherdeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanotherdeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/185 "2011-06-02T11:29:57Z")
> **[The Right to Be… Deaf (part I)](https://handeyes.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/the-right-to-be-deaf-part-i/)** > > heye all – the UK HFEB, the Stop Eugenics campaign, Edwin Black’s War Against the Weak, The Immortal life of Henrietta Lacks, Connexin 26, cochlear implants + Oralism, mainstreaming, EH… ---
**Author:** ![justanotherdeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/77aa72/32.png) [@justanotherdeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanotherdeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/186 "2011-06-02T11:37:48Z")
Those hearing kids of deaf are call CODA (keith Wann, coda brothers,etc) and their language is sign language un do not care if my child is born deaf or hearing. I love them anything and if they are hearing, I do make sure their needs are met. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/187 "2011-06-02T11:41:17Z")
> [@justanotherdeaf](#): > > [The Right to Be… Deaf (part I) | PEOPLE OF TH HandEYE -…first, last, and all the time” – g. veditz 1910](http://handeyes.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/the-right-to-be-deaf-part-i/) Inflamatory conspiracy theory twaddle that does nothing but hinder meaningful conversation on this topic. The more you push this “There is a plot to ‘get’ us, and if you don’t agree you probably support it!” stuff, the more you sound “Indigo Children” proponents. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/188 "2011-06-02T11:46:09Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Deaf people adapt. Hearing people adapt. It works. I never said otherwise. > [@justanotherdeaf](#): > > It wouldn’t really matter because some surgeons will not implant children who will not be using it effectively. - heavy sign language environment. They do not want to put those children at risk for nothing. That makes sense. I think some of us (well, me, at least) probably didn’t have an accurate view on what cochlear implants can and can’t do. ---
**Author:** ![justanotherdeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/77aa72/32.png) [@justanotherdeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanotherdeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/189 "2011-06-02T11:48:44Z")
No its how some feel. If you are not interested, fine . As far as the op question, I do not care for the term disability when we all have Accessibility needs (alarm,stairs,speakers for all you hearing craving needs) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/190 "2011-06-02T11:59:39Z")
> [@justanotherdeaf](#): > > No its how some feel. If you are not interested, fine . > > As far as the op question, I do not care for the term disability when we all have Accessibility needs (alarm,stairs,speakers for all you hearing craving needs) All of those accessibility needs were created to compensate for disabilities. People with disabilities are disabled. “Hearing craving needs”? _Really?_ You are trying to reduce one of the basic senses we have to some sort of fetish. ---
**Author:** ![justanotherdeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/77aa72/32.png) [@justanotherdeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanotherdeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/191 "2011-06-02T12:04:22Z")
Well you do take your hearing for granted. Try watching tv without sounds and you’ll see it will drive you crazy ---
**Author:** ![justanotherdeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/77aa72/32.png) [@justanotherdeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanotherdeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/192 "2011-06-02T12:07:26Z")
Beside it was suppose to be humorous but I guess you took it literally ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/193 "2011-06-02T12:08:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Hearing craving needs”? _Really?_ > You are trying to reduce one of the basic senses we have to some sort of fetish. He (?) is right that society makes a lot of accomodations for people with different needs. I don’t think stairs belong on that list - they’re for people who can’t leap tall buildings in a single bound - but there are a lot of accomodations out there like Walk/Don’t Walk signs that make noise and bumpy sidewalks (for blind people), elevators and chair lifts for people who can’t handle stairs, ramps for people in wheelchairs, and on and on and on. It’s just that it’s usually fair game to say that people who need those things are disabled. And there are accomodations like that for people with hearing problems (sign language interpreters, hearing aids), but according to some people we can’t say that makes them disabled. ---
**Author:** ![justanotherdeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/77aa72/32.png) [@justanotherdeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanotherdeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/194 "2011-06-02T12:09:59Z")
I was think more like climbing a hill. People who are less fit rather use a stair ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/195 "2011-06-02T12:13:00Z")
We usually don’t just stick stairs on a hill unless there’s a sidewalk going over it. That’s not for people with trouble moving, it’s for everybody. And if you’re actually unable to walk up a hill, you’re probably disabled (meaning stairs may not be much help). ---
**Author:** ![justanotherdeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/77aa72/32.png) [@justanotherdeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanotherdeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/196 "2011-06-02T12:17:44Z")
Right but people rather make their life easier by adding stairs and sidewalks. People with different needs want their life easier too ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/197 "2011-06-02T12:26:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Inflamatory conspiracy theory twaddle that does nothing but hinder meaningful conversation on this topic. The more you push this “There is a plot to ‘get’ us, and if you don’t agree you probably support it!” stuff, the more you sound “Indigo Children” proponents. I don’t think I can take the time to read this whole blog, but here’s what I’m seeing: the blogger assumes there must be some kind of secret national registry of deaf people because some deaf people get requests to participate in studies. This is just implausible. We don’t know who is calling, but there are other ways to get that data and no reason for the government to keep it. Drug companies and hearing aid companies, on the other hand, would want that data and could get it from doctors, for instance. There are privacy concerns there but it’s not a national registry. As far as genetic counseling goes, I think the laws vary from state to state, but I think requirements are limited. The most common test is the Rh factor one; I think that’s usually required if you want a marriage license. Some couples choose to get other tests done to find conditions their children might be at risk for, but that’s their decision and it’s not required. So it’s wrong to make it sound like the government is trying to discourage deaf people from having children. I can imagine deaf people being offended if their physician asks if they want to be screened for inheritable disorders relating to deafness, but it’s not an unreasonable question and they don’t have to do it. And this seems to be based on a bunch of assumptions and not on anything that ever happened to the author - he just thinks that if he has deafness with a genetic cause, someone will counsel him not to have children. And from there he assumes that if he and his partner used IV fertilization, the clinic would discard a fetus with any deafness-related genes without consulting him. So there he’s got a nice combination of a hypothetical and something he probably wouldn’t be able to prove if it did happen. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/198 "2011-06-02T12:30:49Z")
> [@justanotherdeaf](#): > > Right but people rather make their life easier by adding stairs and sidewalks. People with different needs want their life easier too I agree, but I’m not sure where you’re going with this. All kinds of people use conveniences like those. People who have a lot of trouble without them, or who can’t get by at all without them, are generally considered disabled. ---
**Author:** ![justanotherdeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/77aa72/32.png) [@justanotherdeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justanotherdeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/199 "2011-06-02T12:42:41Z")
Still don’t care for the trm disability. I like diversity better because we can work together rather if we are different.young, old, use a wheelchair,hearing aid, etc. Disability seem like a label of anyone who don’t fit how a human suppose to be. I do know that some people struggle adapting what they once had but lost but still… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/200 "2011-06-02T13:03:16Z")
I can understand that, but diversity isn’t an alternative term for disability. A diverse group can include people with disability, but it doesn’t have to. And I don’t think the term is intended to reflect how people are _supposed_ to be - it reflects how most people are, which in this case means that most people can hear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370.md?page=11)