# Persuade me that deafness & hearing impairment are not best thought of as disabilities. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370 "2011-05-26T23:36:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/61 "2011-05-27T16:27:38Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > _Sigh_ When you look at a Deaf person and think, “Damn. Glad I don’t have that undesirable trait!” you’re going to come off as a jerk. Only if the other person’s “special ability” is mind-reading. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > Or how about, “This is my friend Jack. He’s deaf.” Maybe, “Yeah, he’s pretty smart for a deaf guy!” Nobody here is advocating this at all. Strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/62 "2011-05-27T16:28:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Humans, as a species, are supposed to be able to hear. Not being able to hear is a net negative, even if it might have some positives. Anyone who actively prevents his child from getting medical help is abusing his child. I’m uncomfortable with this rationale because it seems awfully similar to the argument that humans, as a species, are supposed to be able to reproduce (and therefore gay people aren’t normal). The analogy can be extended. One could conceive of being gay as lacking a sense that most people have – the instinct to find a reproductively-capable mate. Yes, there are workarounds available, but as discussed here, there are also workarounds to allow deaf people to communicate. Gays are socially isolated, even within their own families, and have developed their own subcultures. I honestly don’t know. My gut reaction is that, yes, being deaf is a disability. But (like most people here, presumably) I also think that it would be wrong and insulting to suggest that being gay is a disability, and that leads me to wonder whether I am looking at deafness incorrectly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/63 "2011-05-27T16:30:19Z")
IF you are disabled, you have a disability, and vice versa. What you do to compensate for your disability does nothing to change this definition. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/64 "2011-05-27T16:35:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But they _did_ need the invention of sign language, braille, closed captioning for television and movies, interpreters when they venture outside their own community, special devices for their telephones, etc. This doesn’t seem determinative, though, because it suggests that in a foreign country where I don’t speak the language, I’m disabled. Moreover, saying that they need special devices for their telephones overlooks the fact that the telephone _itself_ is a special device; it doesn’t occur in nature. I have hearing and (some) vision, but I can’t decode a television broadcast without a device. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/65 "2011-05-27T16:38:34Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Or listen to music, the spoken art form (poetry readings, rap, anything without closed captioning, etc.) hear police sirens, car horns or other warnings of potential danger, communicate without direct line of sight, etc. Just like you can’t imagine a world without music (although there are deaf musicians), the deaf can’t imagine a world like ours. _It is not an issue_. RE: danger signs - cognitively deaf people are more aware of their surroundings. > [@](#): > > What’s the situation for deaf pilots? Or ones that need glasses? Actually, you can be a deaf and be a pilot, but you can’t be deaf and be a commercial pilot. > [@](#): > > Hearing provides data about the world. Indeed. As does sight. Not all people process the same - and that’s okay. > [@](#): > > There’s fish that can sense electrical fields. Completely natural to them. Humans never had this sense, our distance fishy ancestors did, but it evolved into something else. 🙂 I don’t know any deaf who can sense electrical fields, but I do have a deaf friend with the uncanny ability to ‘hear’ sound before I do (i.e., thunder, people talking or whatever). RE: Weather: he picks up on the vibrations before my delayed reaction does. He can also hear (feel) the tiny hum of my air conditioner. > [@](#): > > Compared to electric field sensing fish I’m disabled, and jealous. It’s all about perspective. If I decided to go live in the Amazon, I’m sure the indigenous would see me as pretty freaking disabled. > [@](#): > > Having that sense could open up so many things to perceive about the world to me. For all we know, we lose strength in some areas when we gain in others. > [@](#): > > Alas, I and the rest of humanity lack it. If there was technology to give it to me. I’d take in a heart beat. If there was technology so my potential future kids could have it, but not me. I wouldn’t hesitate. They could know my spoken\visual world, but they’d have a world of things I wouldn’t even know how to imagine to learn, grow from, and appreciate. This is your perspective from the hearing world, and I understand what you are saying. But think of how white people saw Native Americans and Native Americans saw white people: both thought the other group as stupid and defective. It’s perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/66 "2011-05-27T16:39:56Z")
The thing you guys might not understand is the stridency of a few people in the Deaf Community. The simple fact is that many deaf adults went through truly horrible deaf education. Boarding schools that were oral only, and literally punished kids for signing, because they believed that if you allowed kids to sign they would learn to lip read. As I said earlier, this whole approach to deaf education was a massive failure. And so when cochlear implants first became available, they were seen as another Oral-only solution imposed on deaf kids. They don’t need to sign, just give them an implant and they’re cured. Except of course they aren’t, many kids with cochlear implants are still deaf, meaning they can’t hear well enough to follow normal conversations. And so what those kids need is sign language. Except the path chosen for this kid by his parents is the hearing world. He’s got a cochlear implant, so they believe that sign language is a distraction, it will hold him back. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/67 "2011-05-27T16:43:11Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > This doesn’t seem determinative, though, because it suggests that in a foreign country where I don’t speak the language, I’m disabled. Moreover, saying that they need special devices for their telephones overlooks the fact that the telephone _itself_ is a special device; it doesn’t occur in nature. I have hearing and (some) vision, but I can’t decode a television broadcast without a device. Man does not naturally travel at 65 mph. To do this we need a special device called a “car”. Now, if I need added devices to this car like a wheelchair ramp and/or hand-operated brakes and accelerator, does the fact that this is already a special device negate the fact that I am disabled? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/68 "2011-05-27T16:47:42Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > This doesn’t seem determinative, though, because it suggests that in a foreign country where I don’t speak the language, I’m disabled. In a way, you are. If you planned to stay in that foreign country, saying that not knowing their language wasn’t a disability at all, because you already knew English, might seem a bit arrogant to some. Can you see why this analogy might not work? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/69 "2011-05-27T16:51:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > IF you are disabled, you have a disability, and vice versa. What you do to compensate for your disability does nothing to change this definition. Well, I’m disabled in the area of having a normative functioning temporal lobe, but I certainly don’t see myself as disabled. Weird; I also think of deaf people as _less_ disabled than I because it is very hard for me to navigate noise, lights, and height sometimes. But I don’t act as such and I don’t function as such. While my brain may have undesirable traits to many - to most - I don’t want to fix it because then I wouldn’t be the same. I most certainly don’t want to live in a world without Lewis Carrol or van Gogh. Would you? And who are you to suggest that you’re better than I am? Because that’s what you’re doing with deaf - you’re saying, _I have something you don’t have. I am better than you._ F that idea. Close-mindedness - the kind that results in persecution, degradation, racism, genocide - _that_ is the greatest disability. Diversity! It’s what makes you better. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/70 "2011-05-27T16:53:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In a way, you are. If you planned to stay in that foreign country, saying that not knowing their language wasn’t a disability at all, because you already knew English, might seem a bit arrogant to some. Can you see why this analogy might not work? Now you’re just changing up the definition of disability all together. You can’t lambast me for supposedly doing so when you just did. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/71 "2011-05-27T16:56:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Man does not naturally travel at 65 mph. To do this we need a special device called a “car”. Now, if I need added devices to this car like a wheelchair ramp and/or hand-operated brakes and accelerator, does the fact that this is already a special device negate the fact that I am disabled? Newsflash: Humans adapt. Technology is something that makes life easier. Technology also reflects human needs. There is a reason why we have adjustable seats in cars, you know. We’re not all built the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/72 "2011-05-27T16:57:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There is a passage in _Watership Down_, where the wandering rabbits fall into a group of other rabbits that live on a farm. And the farmer, instead of trying to wipe out the rabbits, keeps them as a food source. When he wants to, he sets a wire trap and catches one of the rabbits to eat. > > And the prophetic, wandering rabbit, realizes that the whole culture that has sprung up is an effort to cope with the inescapable fact that they are being kept for food. They are all trying to convince themselves and each other that theirs is a good situation - that they “love the wire”. > > It’s a hell of a passage. And I suspect that much of the attitude of Deaf activists is the same - there is nothing they can do about their situation, and they are trying to convince themselves to some degree that they are really better off than they would be as hearing. I think this is a horrible analogy. The rabbits in Strawberry’s warren could leave, but they don’t because it’s comfortable. Deaf people can’t just decide to stop being deaf. Are you going to sit down with the guy in the wheelchair who proudly insists he can do everything anyone else can, and explain to him that no, he really can’t and he’s deluding himself and in denial, and he should change his attitude and face facts and stop focusing on all the things he can do and start focusing on the things he can’t? No you aren’t. You’re going to think to yourself, “Good for him. I’m glad I’m not in a wheelchair, but if I were I hope I’d face it like him.” And of course there’s the additional factor of community. You can carry on a conversation with a guy in a wheelchair. Even if he’s been in a wheelchair his whole life and nobody else in his family has a wheelchair, he’s integrated into his family and neighborhood in a way a deaf kid isn’t and can’t be. He might be part of a group of wheelchair-bound people who get together to talk about wheelchair-bound life, but that group isn’t going to form a community in the same way a group of deaf people would, because the guy in the wheelchair can go back home to his family and talk with them, or you, or his neighbors or co-workers. A deaf person insisting that deafness isn’t a disability is a hyperbolic way of insisting that they’re just as good as anyone else. You’re going to look them in the eye and say, “No you’re not as good as me, I can hear and you can’t”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/73 "2011-05-27T16:58:40Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Well, I’m disabled in the area of having a normative functioning temporal lobe, but I certainly don’t see myself as disabled. Weird; I also think of deaf people as _less_ disabled than I because it is very hard for me to navigate noise, lights, and height sometimes. > > But I don’t act as such and I don’t function as such. While my brain may have undesirable traits to many - to most - I don’t want to fix it because then I wouldn’t be the same. I most certainly don’t want to live in a world without Lewis Carrol or van Gogh. Would you? > > And who are you to suggest that you’re better than I am? Because that’s what you’re doing with deaf - you’re saying, _I have something you don’t have. I am better than you._ > > F that idea. Close-mindedness - the kind that results in persecution, degradation, racism, genocide - _that_ is the greatest disability. > > Diversity! It’s what makes you better. Thank you _ever_ so much for putting words in my mouth. Overreact much? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/74 "2011-05-27T17:01:48Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Those of you who insist that hearing problems are a disability please explain the great number of things such disabled people can’t do? If you can’t whistle or snap your fingers is that a disability? What about people who can’t dance? Is illiteracy a disability? Is someone who can’t read more able than a person who can read but can’t hear? Does the average person who is not deaf know sign language? I think the distinction is clear. Illiteracy, for instance. Are you physically capable of learning to read? Yes? Then it’s not a disability, it’s a lack of a skill. Are deaf people physically capable of learning to hear? No? Then it’s a disability. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/75 "2011-05-27T17:03:29Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > And who are you to suggest that you’re better than I am? Because that’s what you’re doing with deaf - **you’re saying, _I have something you don’t have. I am better than you._** > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you _ever_ so much for putting words in my mouth. Overreact much? :dubious: > [@Lemur866](#): > > A deaf person insisting that deafness isn’t a disability is a hyperbolic way of insisting that they’re just as good as anyone else. You’re going to look them in the eye and say, **“No you’re not as good as me, I can hear and you can’t”?** You just keep on projecting your viewpoints on those you don’t understand, Czarcasm. It sounds rather conceited, though. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/76 "2011-05-27T17:03:44Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Hmm…I wonder if **CandidGamera** has polled Deaf people recently… Keep it in the other thread; it’ll get tiresome having to refute you in two places at once. My speculative claim was presented in response to one of your own - IE that a hearing restorative pill would NOT be taken by millions and millions of people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/77 "2011-05-27T17:04:48Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I am trying. The point of the Deaf is that _they don’t need hearing_. Kind of like how I don’t need to be over five foot two to function, but I may need a stepstool to get to the top shelf. I think most people here understand that, but it’s true that people who don’t have disabilities can lose sight of this. Fair point. You can survive without hearing the same way you can survive without sight, smell, the ability to walk, and a lot of other things. > [@](#): > > It _will_ kill the deaf world if you try to ‘fix’ the Deaf via cochlear implants (without support), restricting ASL, focusing on speechreading, etc. Nobody in this thread has said deaf people should be forced to do anything. I know I already acknowledged that deaf culture could go away if treatments for deafness continue to improve. While I understand people are attached to their cultures, we don’t need to preserve deafness just to keep the culture going, and we don’t need to say it’s not a disability. The rest of this is basically a pedagogical dispute. I’m sure cochlear implant technology will improve, but there’s no reason not to teach people the best tools to handle any hearing problems they have. So teach people support techniques to go along with the implants. I’ve never heard of restricting ASL; I think it’s become more common for people who aren’t deaf to learn it. (My middle brother took it in college for a semester or two.) > [@](#): > > That approach does make deaf people disabled. No, _their hearing disability makes them disabled_. I am sure there are better and worse strategies and coping mechanisms for dealing with that, and we should keep those in mind. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > _Sigh_ When you look at a Deaf person and think, “Damn. Glad I don’t have that undesirable trait!” you’re going to come off as a jerk. Or how about, “This is my friend Jack. He’s deaf.” Maybe, “Yeah, he’s pretty smart for a deaf guy!” In other words, being obnoxious and patronizing is bad. Thank you for pointing this out. > [@](#): > > This is the difference in viewing deaf as ‘different than I am’ as opposed to ‘disabled/lesser than/inadequate’. Has anyone here said deaf people are lesser human beings, or that they themselves (as opposed to their senses of hearing) are inadequate? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/78 "2011-05-27T17:05:17Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I think the distinction is clear. Illiteracy, for instance. Are you physically capable of learning to read? Yes? Then it’s not a disability, it’s a lack of a skill. Are deaf people physically capable of learning to hear? No? Then it’s a disability. The distinction is not clear. Some people literally cannot process written language. But deaf people can read - and communicate. Fluently. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/79 "2011-05-27T17:07:20Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > And who are you to suggest that you’re better than I am? Because that’s what you’re doing with deaf - you’re saying, _I have something you don’t have. I am better than you._ Well, yes, I do have something that you don’t have - the ability to hear. That doesn’t make me better in any moral sense. But I can do several things that a deaf person can’t. I am talking “on average” here - a given deaf person might be able to run faster than me, but that doesn’t make him any less deaf. > [@](#): > > Diversity! It’s what makes you better. Not all the time it doesn’t. That’s like arguing that cutting off a thumb makes you better, because most people have ten fingers. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370/80 "2011-05-27T17:08:12Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > _Sigh_ When you look at a Deaf person and think, “Damn. Glad I don’t have that undesirable trait!” you’re going to come off as a jerk. Or how about, “This is my friend Jack. He’s deaf.” Maybe, “Yeah, he’s pretty smart for a deaf guy!” > > **But** if you look at a Deaf person and think, “Damn. If I were deaf tomorrow, I couldn’t function very well,” that is perfectly reasonable. > > This is the difference in viewing deaf as ‘different than I am’ as opposed to ‘disabled/lesser than/inadequate’. OK - I’m a jerk because “Glad I don’t have that undesirable trait” is how I feel about deafness and I see nothing wrong with that. In addition I view deaf people as both ‘different than I am’ AND ‘disabled’. They are different that I am. They are also disabled. The “lesser than/inadequate” part I’m not sure about because I don’t know where you’re going with that. I certainly do not consider their life worth less than mine or feel like I have the right to look down on them if that’s what you mean. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/persuade-me-that-deafness-hearing-impairment-are-not-best-thought-of-as-disabilities/583370.md?page=5)