# Perturbed over Passover rules **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079 "2011-04-20T14:29:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/41 "2011-04-21T01:20:02Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Passover is a reminder of times of tyranny in the past, and the movement towards freedom. The point of the seder is to remember, to re-enact, to symbolize many deep and profound concepts: on the one hand, hatred of slavery and mistreatment of the down-trodden. On the other hand, appreciation of freedom, and identification with Jewish history and tradition. Depriving ourselves of normal food is to remind us, at every meal, of dedication to that history and tradition. The tradition is not just about what you eat: if it is, then you’ve missed the whole point. The tradition is to remember that we were enslaved and mistreated, and to turn that experience towards never mistreating others, being mindful of the oppressed in every generation. There’s no “lie” in that. > > If your seder/haggadah is too incomprehensible, or has too much Hebrew, find a different one. There are plenty of 'em out there. Or write your own. Meaningless mumbling in a language you don’t understand, discussing concepts that are mysterious – that’s not a seder, that’s a travesty. Last year, we did only a few of the major seder points and we read an abridged version of the book of Exodus (I did the abridging.) The point of the seder should be to learn. **Stands up & claps for this post** Well said. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/42 "2011-04-21T01:45:19Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Break up egg matzoh into milk Actually, IIRC, egg matzah isn’t kosher for passover. Anyways, it’s Official Heresy to mistreat matzah in such a manner. So, I give you, my Grandmother’s recipe for matzah brye. -Break a board of matzah up into largeish pieces (a full board should be broken up into roughly 12-20 pieces, no fewer) -Pour boiling water over them and _very quickly_ drain it out. They should be in the water for no more than a few seconds, tops. -Have a beaten egg ready to go, and pour the matzah pieces into the egg batter. -Put the whole thing onto a preheated skilled and cook until golden brown and crispy. -Serve with brown sugar, honey, maple syrup, whatever. It’s fucking awesome. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/43 "2011-04-21T01:53:50Z")
Unlike many religious people, I find that the easiest thing to do in cases like this is to question and analyze god’s will. Once you realize he won’t give a damn about the type of bread you eat, and it’s all about the symbolism, go ahead and bake that sucker for 30 mins ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/44 "2011-04-21T02:31:00Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Actually, IIRC, egg matzah isn’t kosher for passover. > Anyways, it’s Official Heresy to mistreat matzah in such a manner. So, I give you, my Grandmother’s recipe for matzah brye. Egg Matzah is perfectly kosher for Passover. It cannot be used ceremonially at a seder, but it is kosher to eat during Passover if properly KfP manufactured. By custom, only the children or infirm within Ashkenazis eat egg matzoh, but even by the strictest interpretation, it’s only a custom, as Sephardim eat it freely, and Talmudic authority supports both interpretations. [All about that](http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/168,2068731/Is-Egg-Matzah-okay-for-Passover-use.html#articlepage) [Chabad agrees](http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/1163475/jewish/Is-Egg-Matzah-Kosher-For-Passover.htm) > [@](#): > > -Break a board of matzah up into largeish pieces (a full board should be broken up into roughly 12-20 pieces, no fewer) > -Pour boiling water over them and _very quickly_ drain it out. They should be in the water for no more than a few seconds, tops. > -Have a beaten egg ready to go, and pour the matzah pieces into the egg batter. > -Put the whole thing onto a preheated skilled and cook until golden brown and crispy. > -Serve with brown sugar, honey, maple syrup, whatever. It’s fucking awesome. Our matzah brei is savory with onions and lots of black pepper. Sweet brei sounds disgusting to me, and I am well aware that for proponents of sweet, savory sounds equally gross. It’s a deep schism in Jewish life. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/45 "2011-04-21T02:41:10Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Egg Matzah is perfectly kosher for Passover. It cannot be used ceremonially at a seder, but it is kosher to eat during Passover if properly KfP manufactured. By custom, only the children or infirm within Ashkenazis eat egg matzoh, but even by the strictest interpretation, it’s only a custom, as Sephardim eat it freely, and Talmudic authority supports both interpretations. > [All about that](http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/168,2068731/Is-Egg-Matzah-okay-for-Passover-use.html#articlepage) > [Chabad agrees](http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/1163475/jewish/Is-Egg-Matzah-Kosher-For-Passover.htm) Hrmmm… interesting, thanks for clearing up my ignorance. My Ashkenazic background got in the way, I guess. > [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Our matzah brei is savory with onions and lots of black pepper. I am reasonably certain that this is grounds for excommunication and/or being fed to wild dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/46 "2011-04-21T02:48:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Eh. I’ve had bacon once or twice; cheeseburgers too. I’m perfectly happy living without them. If you don’t want your share of cheezburgers, there are many deprived kitties in the world who are willing to devour your portion. Honestly, I find it difficult to imagine a world without cheeseburgers. And, I think, if I were Jewish (and not atheist) I would probably reason that the odds of a hamburger being made out of veal are astronomical. After all, the original instruction was to avoid seething a kid in it’s mother’s milk. I can see that requiring a desert tribe to abstain from shellfish is a good idea. And possibly it’s a good idea to require them to abstain from pork, too, since humans and pigs eat pretty much the same things. But the separate meat and dairy thing is, I believe, not relevant to today’s realities. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/47 "2011-04-21T02:58:40Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Because it’s a cultural identity. Some people like belonging to a particular culture, even if they don’t believe in its supernatural attributes. Particularly if this makes their family happy - making a clean break with one’s family is pretty traumatic for most. Agreed 100%. Culturally I’m a Jew. Raised a Jew. My family used to slaughter lamb for Jacob’s family. Yes, that Jacob. Don’t ask how I know. People talk. Now? I’m quite close to being Baptised into the Episcopal Church. Because that is where my spiritual home is. But I’d be a hypocrite to say I’m not an ethnic Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/48 "2011-04-21T03:03:03Z")
do you know how many jews suffer from GI problems? i donno, that greasy bacon cheeseburger sounds like a bad idea… ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/49 "2011-04-21T08:14:20Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I doubt it, if only because you can’t know how long the dough sat before baking. I’m clearly missing something (having almost zero exposure to Jewish culture), but what’s the length of time the dough has sat got to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/50 "2011-04-21T08:25:29Z")
fermentation. and for passover, making sure there’s no possible way it could ever taste good. 😛 basically = stuff that grows, haha. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/51 "2011-04-21T08:27:44Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Agreed 100%. Culturally I’m a Jew. Raised a Jew. My family used to slaughter lamb for Jacob’s family. Yes, that Jacob. Don’t ask how I know. People talk. > > Now? I’m quite close to being Baptised into the Episcopal Church. Because that is where my spiritual home is. But I’d be a hypocrite to say I’m not an ethnic Jew. :eek: We just had a huge debate on the use of that word. As long as you don’t do that Jew for Jesus identity thing, there’s no hypocrite to it! 🙂 So sorry you didn’t find what you needed in Judaism, but good luck on your spiritual journey! :: quickly puts Cartoon on a Gentile Watch List :: j/k 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/52 "2011-04-21T09:02:07Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > fermentation. > > and for passover, making sure there’s no possible way it could ever taste good. 😛 > > basically = stuff that grows, haha. So I’m guessing Damper Bread is out too, then? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/53 "2011-04-21T09:05:33Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Matzah is unleavened bread. Matzah is bread that has not yet been leavened. Before the bread rises, you can consider it Matzah. Matzah is made from wheat flour, same as bread. How many ways should I type it out before we all come to accept that Matzah = subcategory of bread. It’s just that you can’t bake it for more than 18 minutes (a coincidently symbolic number in Judaism) lest it become bread bread. Never mind that you throw those sponge and marble cakes into the oven for an hour. That’s all cool. But 18 minutes is the limit on matzah bread. Nitpick: 18 minutes isn’t the baking time, it’s the maximum interval between mixing and baking - the point being that unbaked dough will naturally leaven itself if left alone due to stray/wild yeasts (that’s how sourdough starters are made). Sponge cakes might be baked longer, but the interval between mixing and baking is usually shorter than 18 minutes for other purely practical/aesthetic reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/54 "2011-04-21T09:56:25Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Nitpick: 18 minutes isn’t the baking time, it’s the maximum interval between mixing and baking - the point being that unbaked dough will naturally leaven itself if left alone due to stray/wild yeasts (that’s how sourdough starters are made). > Sponge cakes might be baked longer, but the interval between mixing and baking is usually shorter than 18 minutes for other purely practical/aesthetic reasons. So then is it acceptable to eat any type of unleavened bread and still be kosher for Passover? If you make it yourself, so you know it was less than 18 minutes between mixing and baking, could you eat roti and naan or tortillas or any other non-leavened breads? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/55 "2011-04-21T10:27:14Z")
i think there are additional restrictions…and i dont know what kind of stuff goes into that bread. the best thing to do is eat lots of yummy fruits and veggies and lose five lbs. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/56 "2011-04-21T11:26:23Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > If your seder/haggadah is too incomprehensible, or has too much Hebrew, find a different one. There are plenty of 'em out there. Or write your own. Meaningless mumbling in a language you don’t understand, discussing concepts that are mysterious – that’s not a seder, that’s a travesty. Last year, we did only a few of the major seder points and we read an abridged version of the book of Exodus (I did the abridging.) The point of the seder should be to learn. [Agreeing with **CKDH**] There is a New Testament incident where Jesus told some Pharisees that “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath”. A similar concept is the whole issue of spirit versus letter of the (secular) law. If you want to keep Kosher, do it. If you don’t want to, then don’t. Do what makes sense for you. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/57 "2011-04-21T12:35:32Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > So then is it acceptable to eat any type of unleavened bread and still be kosher for Passover? If you make it yourself, so you know it was less than 18 minutes between mixing and baking, could you eat roti and naan or tortillas or any other non-leavened breads? I don’t know (I’m a gentile) but I suspect not - there are probably other criteria. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/58 "2011-04-21T15:27:59Z")
The vast majority of flour is not kept absolutely, 100% dry at all times between grinding and baking. As soon as it touches water, the 18 minute clock starts, so proper unleavened bread is made from flour that you know has been kept totally dry, which isn’t going to be the Hecker’s you buy at the grocery store. That said, matza doesn’t have to be hard and cracker-like. Traditional Sephardi matza is soft and flatbreadish, although it apparently goes stale very quickly if you don’t keep it frozen. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/59 "2011-04-21T16:45:12Z")
Rule of thumb: when it comes to food, traditional Sephardi anything is better than traditional Ashkenazi anything. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079/60 "2011-04-21T16:58:45Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > So then is it acceptable to eat any type of unleavened bread and still be kosher for Passover? If you make it yourself, so you know it was less than 18 minutes between mixing and baking, could you eat roti and naan or tortillas or any other non-leavened breads? It depends. Wheat, rye, barley, oats, and spelt are all subject to the 18 minute rule. Ashkenazic Jews treat rice, corn, peanuts, and vegetables from the pea family as forbidden. Roti derives (so far as I know) from wheat flour and would be subject to the same 18 minute rule. Naan, if unleavened, has the same source and would be treated the same way. Corn tortillas would be fine outside the Ashkenazic community. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/perturbed-over-passover-rules/579079.md?page=4)