# Pet Wolves **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 24, 2007, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100 "2007-12-24T05:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/21 "2007-12-24T22:23:43Z")
[QUOTE=Sockmunkey] The selective breeding that created the dog didn’t just select for positive traits like intelligence, etc. It selected for _juvenile_ traits. Emotionally/ psychologically dogs never totally grow out of puppyhood. [/QUOTE] 'm not sure how aggression equates to “mature”. We’re talking about animals with marked genetic diffferences. I haven’t heard that wolf pups make good pets because they’re juvenile. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/22 "2007-12-24T22:35:28Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] 'm not sure how aggression equates to “mature”. We’re talking about animals with marked genetic diffferences. I haven’t heard that wolf pups make good pets because they’re juvenile. [/QUOTE] No, I’ve heard that, too, actually. Most domestic animals retain traits of neoteny–things like floppy ears are traits common in young animals, and in domestic animals. It is why dogs make such great pets. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/23 "2007-12-24T22:56:38Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] Wolves are endangered in some areas, but even if allowed in your area, I would highly recommend against it. Malemutes are half wolf (or a portion thereof), and are generally untrainable, independent, stubborn animals. They generally don’t like people or other dogs. [/QUOTE] Minor 'jack: Malamutes are malamutes; they’ve got nothing more to do with wolves than any other dog. [Cite.](http://www.wayeh.com/aboutsleddogs/wolves.htm) Also, they’re not “untrainable,” though they’re certainly known for being some fairly headstrong doggies. As to their attitude towards people and other dogs–the malamutes I’ve known have all been wonderful, affectionate animals. Like any other dog, it’s a matter of properly socializing them and making sure that they have plenty of exercise and proper discipline. In fact, they wouldn’t be a bad choice for a dog that has some of the wolf’s beauty without the nightmare of behavioural issues that would accompany an actual wolf or wolf-hybrid. I’d love to have a mally myself, but my life path right now doesn’t make it likely. (If someone can find a better cite than the one above, it’d be great. The AKC is notably silent as to any lupine heritage of the breed, but I’m sure someone would argue that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/24 "2007-12-24T23:04:07Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Why is that more irresponsible than having just one dog? [/QUOTE] Because a dog can be integrated into your “pack” in a way that a wild wolf can’t. It is true that a human raised wolf will be social with the human that raised them, but it’s not nearly the same as a dog. Dogs have been selectively bred over millenia to weed out aggressive and wild behaviors. ---
**Author:** ![Grits\_and\_Hard\_Toast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Grits\_and\_Hard\_Toast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grits_and_Hard_Toast)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/25 "2007-12-24T23:05:55Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Is there any evidence that dogs are any less social? I’m not aware of any. Usually, the dog will “bond” with its human owner(s), thinking it’s part of that pack. Or so the hypothesis goes. I’m not aware of any evidence that wolf pups raised by humans would be any different. That doesn’t mean they don’t have a different temperament (it’s pretty clear that they do), but it also doesn’t mean that they are any more or less social and would suffer any more or less by being alone than a dog would. One might argue that a dog is even more at risk, since it seems to have retain a lot more juvenile behaviors as an adult, and juveniles are probably more in need of a social group than adults would be. That’s conjecture, of course, but in thinking about this I just can’t see that dogs are less vulnerable than wolves to living without a proper pack of other dogs/wolves. [/QUOTE] This is also conjecture, but I watched a program about this just last night. The program explained how dogs of today come from many, many years of human selective breeding. Humans knew what traits they needed for the dogs to meet certain needs of the humans. For working dogs they needed special abilities, like running quickly or swimming. But they also needed to be trainable by humans. Ability to respond well to humans was always an important part of the mix. So I would think that our domesticated dogs are much better suited to accept humans as part of their packs. Generations before them have worked with and relied on humans. It comes naturally to them because that is in part what they were selectively bred for. A wolf pup raised by humans wouldn’t have all those generations preceding them that accepted humans as part of their pack. In fact, the wolf pups would have centuries of fear and distrust of humans in their genetic make-up. It would be very unlikely that the wolf pup would consider humans as part of their pack. In the show they discussed a guy in Russia who was trying to bred wolves and dogs to produce an animal who would excel in police work. It took several generations of chosing the most people friendly of the hybrid pups to produce a hybrid who could work well with humans. Most of even the hybrids still showed a fear of humans and could not be worked with and trained. They felt the only reason they had any success at all was because the founding mother wolf was a rare people-friendly wolf. She had actually rejected mating with wolves, and preferred a dog. So I would think it natural that when having a single dog in your home, the dog has his social pack needs met by being with humans. It would be part of his genetic make up to accept humans as members of his pack. A single wolf on the other hand would not have those social needs met by humans because they would instintively fear the humans. The wolf pup wouldn’t feel part of a human pack. So the single wolf would likely feel isolated and alone. And I do agree with the others, that trying to keep a wolf on your property as a pet is a bad idea. Probably illegal as well. If the OP is serious about starting a wolf sanctuary, he/she can do research, find other wolf organizations, and network with them to find out what would be involved. There may even be some other groups like the one in Russia that is carefully trying to breed wolf-dog hybrids to meet certain needs. The show did make it clear that these were to be working dogs not family pets though. I couldn’t find a link on the show I watched, but this one might be a good starting place: [Russian police employ wolves for service](http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/25-04-2006/79498-wolf-0) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/26 "2007-12-24T23:07:03Z")
[QUOTE=LawMonkey] (If someone can find a better cite than the one above, it’d be great. The AKC is notably silent as to any lupine heritage of the breed, but I’m sure someone would argue that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. [/QUOTE] It doesn’t matter. For a Malamute to be a “half wolf” one of its parents would need to be a wolf. Any dog that is half something and half something else is not a proper breed at all. ASAIK, it is difficult to breed hybrids and acheive consistent results. Ethical breeders are vigilant about not breeding dogs that vary from the breed standard. This is difficult if not impossible to do when two separate breeds are mated. Malamutes are bred with Malamutes, and have been for many years. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/27 "2007-12-24T23:21:45Z")
[QUOTE=LawMonkey] Minor 'jack: Malamutes are malamutes; they’ve got nothing more to do with wolves than any other dog. [Cite.](http://www.wayeh.com/aboutsleddogs/wolves.htm) Also, they’re not “untrainable,” though they’re certainly known for being some fairly headstrong doggies. As to their attitude towards people and other dogs–the malamutes I’ve known have all been wonderful, affectionate animals. Like any other dog, it’s a matter of properly socializing them and making sure that they have plenty of exercise and proper discipline. In fact, they wouldn’t be a bad choice for a dog that has some of the wolf’s beauty without the nightmare of behavioural issues that would accompany an actual wolf or wolf-hybrid. I’d love to have a mally myself, but my life path right now doesn’t make it likely. (If someone can find a better cite than the one above, it’d be great. The AKC is notably silent as to any lupine heritage of the breed, but I’m sure someone would argue that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. [/QUOTE] My bad. I apparently bought into local lore. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/28 "2007-12-25T03:59:05Z")
[QUOTE=Sockmunkey] Even police who use dog/wolf hybrids as attack dogs (which requires the dog to be something of a hardass) never use straight wolves. The ones that get used are always a couple generations removed from wolfhood. [/QUOTE] Cite? There are plenty of breeds of dog that are perfectly trainable while being intimidating. Why would anyone bother to use a wolf/dog hybrid, given their unpredictability and difficulty of training? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/29 "2007-12-25T06:48:03Z")
[QUOTE=treis] Because a dog can be integrated into your “pack” in a way that a wild wolf can’t. It is true that a human raised wolf will be social with the human that raised them, but it’s not nearly the same as a dog. [/quote] Got a cite for any of that? BTW-- even if that were true, that wouldn’t be proof that a dog is more equipped to handle being alone than a wolf is. > [@](#): > > Dogs have been selectively bred over millenia to weed out aggressive and wild behaviors. What does that have to do with how much a dog vs a wolf suffers from being alone? ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/30 "2007-12-25T16:55:11Z")
Other people will have much more informed opinions than I, but I lived in Alaska during the 90s, and hybrid wolves were not uncommon there. However, there are serious, significant issues with them. They are not dogs, never will be dogs, and cannot be treated like dogs. I would advise you to really, really think about the idea of owning one, and be very aware… Hell, I advise you to not do it. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/31 "2007-12-25T17:17:32Z")
Hybrid attacks on children: [Leerburg | Dog Training Articles](http://leerburg.com/wolf2.htm) Hybrid wolf info: [http://www.wildsentry.org/hybrid.html](http://www.wildsentry.org/hybrid.html) Hybrid wolf info: [http://www.gocco.co.za/wolf\_hybrids.htm](http://www.gocco.co.za/wolf_hybrids.htm) > [@](#): > > It should also be noted that wolf hybrid behavior differs greatly depending on the percentage of wolf, the combination of genes, the age of the animal, and the conditions under which it is kept. In short, wolf- hybrid behavior is highly unpredictable. It is entirely possible that one animal may be capable of limited adaptability as a pet, and another littermate may be totally unsuitable. Even if your friend or this person does indeed have a “great pet”, the exception never proves the rule. Due to factors such as stress, escape and subsequent accidental death, and destruction because of owner’s inability to handle a sexually mature animal, 90% of wolf hybrids do not make it to their third birthday. > > The ownership of an exotic or wild animal carries obligations far in excess of those of the domestic pet owner. The owner of an exotic has to understand and cope with wild instincts and dispositions. Potential liability is great and the hybrid owner has an obligation to protect the public from a potentially dangerous animal. Laws of the Country are in place to have people prosecuted and jailed for incidents involving injury or death caused by their animals. The breeder of the wolf-hybrid must consider if buyers can properly meet the needs of the animals he or she produces. > > The romantic appeal of the wolf-hybrid is undeniable; to control and be loved by the wild and uncontrollable has a real appeal to some people. But the reality is that the wolf-hybrid is nothing like the romantic fantasy you imagine. Zoos and refuges are swamped by desperate calls from people trying to unload an animal that is nothing like their fantasy. Hybridizing is perhaps the worst of a long list of abuses man has heaped upon the wolf. More info: [http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/newsletters/v5n4/5n4wille.htm](http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/newsletters/v5n4/5n4wille.htm) This source seemed to be well-written, with plenty of cites. Dog attack deaths and maimings 1982-2007 (PDF) [http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attacks-merritt-clifton-2007.pdf](http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attacks-merritt-clifton-2007.pdf) > [@](#): > > – Relative to their overall numbers, wolf hybrids are accordingly 60 times more likely to kill or maim a child than a German shepherd–and that is before even beginning to consider the critical behavioral distinctions. > > Every one of the wolf hybrid attacks, however, seems to have been predatory. Only four of the fatality victims were older than age seven, and all three were of small stature. The first adult fatality was killed in the presence of her two young sons, whom she was apparently trying to protect. The second was killed while apparently trying to protect her dog. Most of the victims were killed very quickly. Some never knew the wolf hybrid was present. Some may never have known what hit them. Some were killed right in front of parents, who had no time to react. Unlike German shepherds, wolf hybrids are usually kept well apart from children, and from any people other than their owners. Yet they have still found more opportunity to kill and maim than members of any other breeds except pit bull terriers and Rottweilers, each of whom may outnumber wolf hybrids by about 10 to 1. I am not anti-wolf. I think wolves are beautiful animals with an important place… in the wild. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/32 "2007-12-25T17:36:59Z")
[QUOTE=Savannah] Other people will have much more informed opinions than I, but I lived in Alaska during the 90s, and hybrid wolves were not uncommon there. However, there are serious, significant issues with them. They are not dogs, never will be dogs, and cannot be treated like dogs. I would advise you to really, really think about the idea of owning one, and be very aware… Hell, I advise you to not do it. [/QUOTE] My Wife worked county animal control for about 5 years. Wolf hybrids are not uncommon in the mountains of Colorado. I have not had any direct exporsure to the wolf/hybrid, but my Wife has said the same thing you did **Savannah**. Nearly word for word. ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/33 "2007-12-25T21:25:16Z")
Here is the name of a (IMHO) “Total Flake” that has spent her life promoting the Coddling of the Wolf. Karlyn Atkinson-Berg Google this "Flake’ and see if you are on the same wave length. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/34 "2007-12-25T22:28:00Z")
[QUOTE=Gbro] Here is the name of a (IMHO) “Total Flake” that has spent her life promoting the Coddling of the Wolf. Karlyn Atkinson-Berg Google this "Flake’ and see if you are on the same wave length. [/QUOTE] I don’t know how one would factually determine if a person is a “flake” or not, so I think I’ll decline the invitation. ---
**Author:** ![mudmusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@mudmusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudmusher)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/35 "2007-12-26T19:04:41Z")
Hi, I work at Wolf Park, we get many many calls from people who get a wolf/wolfdog and quickly find themselves in over their head. We can’t take them and the good rescue places out there fill up. You have received some good advice from some of the folks here- research, research, research being the best of them. First: there are a lot of people out there who think they have wolves or high content wolfdogs and have some combination of northern breed dog (mal, Siberian, Samoyed, etc) instead. Generally speaking, if they “make great pets”- look closer, it’s probably a dog. And a true high content wolfdog will have the same basic issues as a pure wolf. Beware any breeder who doesn’t rake you over the coals, so to speak. A good breeder will check out your property, talk to your entire family and tell you all the negatives involved. (actually that goes for dog breeders too) If you have you’re heart set on getting a wolf, starting a sanctuary, whatever, get to know a sanctuary near to you. There are lots of them out there and trust me, they ALL could use help. And hands on is the best way to learn about what you are thinking about getting into. They can tell you all the issues surrounding having wolves in captivity- heavy duty fences (at least 6 to 8 feet) with overhangs and underskirting to keep the wolves in, perimeter fencing to keep idiots from getting close to your wolves and getting bit, neighbors complaining, legal battles with local officials, insurance, USDA regs, saying no to a deserving animal when you have no more room, money, finding competent help if you get sick or want to go on vacation, the list goes on and on. Find out BEFORE you get any wolf or wolfdog! Google “wolf sanctuary” to find one near you or contact me through Wolf Park, I’ll try to hook you up. And all that doesn’t even touch on dealing with behavior issues with the wolves. They aren’t dogs! Thinking that they are can get you in trouble. You have to understand the differences and yes, we do have seminars on wolf behavior, they’re listed on our website ([www.wolfpark.org](http://www.wolfpark.org)), we also have internships if you are so inclined (details also on website). We can be a resource, but we’re not the only ones out there. [http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/index.html](http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/index.html) is a page on our website explaining more about wolfdogs with more links for you. What you are talking about is not a casual thing. Wolves/ wolfdogs can live well into their teens and YOU are responsible for that animal for their entire life. If you find that you are in over your head, THEY are the ones to suffer the consequences. Gale Wolf Park BAttle Ground, IN 47920 > **[Wolf Park | Greater Lafayette, Indiana](https://wolfpark.org/)** > > Wolf Park is an education, conservation, and research facility located in Battle Ground, Indiana. We assist researchers around the world. Book a tour now! ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/36 "2007-12-26T21:19:36Z")
mudmusher and especially Savannah (not to discount several other posters) nailed it. Hybrid wolf as pet = wolf as pet. Wolf as pet = very bad idea. Therefore even hybrid wolf as pet = very bad idea. I serve on a special panel to my state’s fish and game department (Captive Wildlife Technical Advisory Group, if we want specifics) and can tell you firsthand that hybrids, both canine and feline, are one of the most intractable problems in captive wildlife regulation. People just do not understand the differences between true wild animals and domesticated varieties. I won’t belabor it. Read the cites given by these two posters at least. Then forget the idea of obtaining a wolf as a “pet”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2007, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/37 "2007-12-27T03:01:11Z")
[QUOTE=CannyDan] I serve on a special panel to my state’s fish and game department (Captive Wildlife Technical Advisory Group, if we want specifics) and can tell you firsthand that hybrids, both canine and feline, are one of the most intractable problems in captive wildlife regulation.. [/QUOTE] I completely agree with you re wolves and wolf-hybrids, but not feline hybrids. I own a Bengal F3, and know many dudes who own a Begal and there has never been a problem with a Bengal that you couldn;t have with a 100% domesticated cat. That being said, no reputable Bengal breeder will sell anything more “wild” than an F3, which is three generations away from the wild, a F1 being a Cat/Asian Leopard cat cross. So my F3 is only 1/8th “wild”. And Bengals are especially bred for temperment, any sign of being “wild” will disqualify the cat from being shown. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2007, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/38 "2007-12-27T03:05:27Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] That being said, no reputable Bengal breeder will sell anything more “wild” than an F3, which is three generations away from the wild, a F1 being a Cat/Asian Leopard cat cross. So my F3 is only 1/8th “wild”. And Bengals are especially bred for temperment, any sign of being “wild” will disqualify the cat from being shown. [/QUOTE] How does that work? Do breeders maintain a wild breeding stock? What are successive generations bred with? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2007, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/39 "2007-12-27T03:07:54Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] I completely agree with you re wolves and wolf-hybrids, but not feline hybrids. I own a Bengal F3, and know many dudes who own a \*\*Begal \*\* and there has never been a problem [/QUOTE] I dunno, I had a Beagle a while back, the guy was always howling all night and getting into the foulest smelling stuff he could find. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sockmunkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Sockmunkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sockmunkey)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100/40 "2007-12-27T13:48:03Z")
[QUOTE=cwthree] Cite? There are plenty of breeds of dog that are perfectly trainable while being intimidating. Why would anyone bother to use a wolf/dog hybrid, given their unpredictability and difficulty of training? [/QUOTE] IIRC the premise was to have dogs with greater strength and stamina. Probably pointless just as you said, but I suspect the proponents of it were actually thinking that criminals would think “hey the cops have wolf-dogs now, I better surrender quietly”. If I can dig up a copy of the text or find a vid clip I’ll post it. (Don’t hold your breath on it though, I came across it over ten years ago) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pet-wolves/431100.md?page=3)