# PETA is not just a punchline. They are EVIL **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 30, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675 "2013-05-30T02:10:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/61 "2013-05-31T18:08:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > There are excellent reason to support open-access shelters (rather than no-kill shelters). PETA’s support for such shelters does not apply the sort of wacky doggy-death cult that some folks are implying. Then why were two PETA employees arrested in 2005 after killing “adorable” and “perfect” (their own words) dogs and cats in the back of a PETA-owned van? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/62 "2013-05-31T18:10:24Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Then why were two PETA employees arrested in 2005 after killing “adorable” and “perfect” (their own words) dogs and cats in the back of a PETA-owned van? I probably should have discussed that very case about half a dozen times in the thread, then you wouldn’t have to ask me that question. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/63 "2013-05-31T18:25:31Z")
Sure sounds like they believe any animal is better off dead than in a shelter. Which isn’t all that different from > [@drewtwo99](#): > > It’s not that PETA doesn’t care, it’s that they believe pets are better off dead than being enslaved as pets. So why the hell WOULD they adopt them out? The seem to adopt a token amount out, probably for PR purproses, but PETA’s entire stance on pets is that they’d be better off never having existed in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/64 "2013-05-31T18:59:33Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Sure sounds like they believe any animal is better off dead than in a shelter. No it doesn’t. Are you completely unaware of the realities of no-kill shelters vs. open-access shelters? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/65 "2013-05-31T19:27:33Z")
1. Ingrid Newkirk refers to pets as “companion animals”. 2. People should look to other people, not animals, for companionship. 3. Their goal is total animal liberation. 4. They have killed animals on the pretense of adopting them out or taking them somewhere else with better living conditions. And you say it doesn’t sound like they believe any animal is better off dead than in a shelter? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/66 "2013-05-31T19:34:38Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > 1. Ingrid Newkirk refers to pets as “companion animals”. > > 2. People should look to other people, not animals, for companionship. > > 3. Their goal is total animal liberation. > > 4. They have killed animals on the pretense of adopting them out or taking them somewhere else with better living conditions. > > And you say it doesn’t sound like they believe any animal is better off dead than in a shelter? :dubious: #1 is irrelevant. #2 and #3 are eventual goals. #4 is not true. A few goons working for them may have done this (again, it’s unclear, viz. the idiots not having written records of the transfer agreements), but they got fired when their shoddy behavior came to light. As for your conclusion, let’s make a prediction with it. If you’re correct, then I should not be able to find any examples of PETA praising a shelter for its adoption setup, correct? I should not be able to find any examples of PETA working with animal shelters to improve their care for animals or to help with spay/neuters in preparation for adoptions, correct? What testable predictions can we make with your doggy-death-cult hypothesis? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/67 "2013-05-31T19:40:54Z")
I advise folks interested in the doggy-death-cult hypothesis to [check out PETA’s own statements about animal shelters](http://www.peta.org/b/thepetafiles/archive/tags/animal+shelters/default.aspx) rather than relying on astroturf articles about them. Sample quote from page 2: > [@PETA](#): > > October is “Adopt a Shelter Dog” Month, and if you’re ready to commit to caring for a canine companion, there is no better place to find your new best friend than a shelter or rescue group. Shelters are overflowing with dogs of all ages, personalities, and sizes—mutts and purebreds. Just make sure that your lifestyle, activity level, and experience will make you a good fit for the animal you’re considering. For a nominal adoption fee—hundreds less than what breeders typically charge—your new family member will likely go home neutered, vaccinated, dewormed, and microchipped. Again, I’m not a fan of PETA, but honestly I think that one area where they actually do some decent work is with animal sheltering. If they’d shut up about comparing meat to concentration camps and getting attention-whoring celebrity endorsements, and spend more time putting pressure on low-quality shelters and helping out the good ones, they’d lose a lot of their idiot trendy shallow supporters, but I’d like them a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/68 "2013-05-31T19:47:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Musicat](#): > > > > That’s logical only if you believe that keeping any pet is slavery, which is PETA’s position. It shows how radical they are. > > THAT IS NOT PETA’S POSITION. [No?](http://www.nopitbullbans.com/animal-rights-activists-quotes/) > [@](#): > > “Let us allow the dog to disappear from our brick and concrete jungles–from our firesides, from the leather nooses and chains by which we **enslave** it.” John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of A Changing Ethic Washington People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, (PeTA), 1982, p. 15. And: > [@](#): > > “It is time we demand an end to the misguided and abusive concept of animal ownership. The first step on this long, but just, road would be ending the concept of pet ownership.” Elliot Katz, President “In Defense of Animals,” Spring 1997. > > “In the end, I think it would be lovely if we stopped this whole notion of pets altogether.” Ingrid Newkirk, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Newsday, 2/21/88. Perhaps not a pet, but [Free Shamu:](http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/24/news/companies/seaworld-peta/index.html) > [@](#): > > PETA said that its “first order of business” as a SeaWorld (SEAS) shareholder is to demand the release of its orcas, starting with Corky, “who has been **enslaved** by SeaWorld for 44 years.” [More evidence that Ingrid Newkirk is pathologically insane:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals) > [@](#): > > In 2011, PETA named five orcas as plaintiffs and sued SeaWorld over the animals’ **enslavement,** seeking their protection under the Thirteenth Amendment. A federal judge heard the case and dismissed it in early 2012. (All bolding mine.) ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/69 "2013-05-31T19:51:48Z")
Well, the treatment of marine mammals in water parks is horrifying and awful, when you really come down to it. (Oh, God, I agree with PETA about something! UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!) I don’t really think it’s a comparable situation to pet ownership. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/70 "2013-05-31T19:59:21Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > [No?](http://www.nopitbullbans.com/animal-rights-activists-quotes/) No. That first quote is the closest that I’ve seen, but it’s three decades old, and the only sources I can find for that quote–or for John Bryant in any connection with PETA\_-are on anti-PETA websites. Find it in context and we’ll discuss it. Because it’s totally against what PETA has on their own website, as I just linked to. And we need to figure out how to resolve that discrepancy. There are some possibilities: 1. PETA’s website, in which they encourage folks to adopt animals from shelters and give caveats for how to do so successfully, and mention shelters they’ve partnered with, is a massive scam designed to cover up their conspiracy. This is a conspiracy on par with Satanic Panic conspiracies. That dog won’t hunt. 2. John Bryant, whoever he is (the basketball player, maybe?), is one exceptional nutcase who doesn’t represent the current PETA folks. 3. The quote is taken out of context. All the other quotes you offer have nothing to do with whether PETS are SLAVES (my emphasis). Again, what predictions can you make with the doggy-death hypothesis? It’s a silly scam perpetrated by a few rabid anti-animal-rights loons and an astroturf lobbying group, and it’s depressing that so many people swallow it. I think it’s so easy to swallow because PETA is so eminently hateable. But that doesn’t mean you should believe every bad thing said about them. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/71 "2013-05-31T20:00:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Again, I happen to disagree with PETA’s extreme views on the morality of animal testing, and I oppose a lot of their positions and activities. But I resent being puppeteered into anti-PETA outrage at the instigation of a bunch of cynical shills running a front group for industry PR. I’m willing to take your word on the validity of the articles. If PETA wasn’t defrauding people, then I got no problem with them on that front. I dislike PETA because they’re extremists and often idiots. They did good work and made really valid points about animal testing back in the early days. It is yet another organization that has outlived its usefulness, and yet won’t die. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/72 "2013-05-31T20:04:17Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > I’m willing to take your word on the validity of the articles. If PETA wasn’t defrauding people, then I got no problem with them on that front. > > I dislike PETA because they’re extremists and often idiots. They did good work and made really valid points about animal testing back in the early days. > > It is yet another organization that has outlived its usefulness, and yet won’t die. Agreed on all counts. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/73 "2013-05-31T21:20:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Agreed on all counts. Thirded. So apparently all we are arguing about is HOW evil or HOW extreme or HOW idiotic or HOW defrauding they are. Nitpicking much? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/74 "2013-05-31T21:49:23Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Thirded. So apparently all we are arguing about is HOW evil or HOW extreme or HOW idiotic or HOW defrauding they are. Nitpicking much? I don’t think it’s nitpicking to point out that the specific thing PETA is being Pitted for here is not actually all that bad, even if you still disapprove of some other things PETA does. As for PETA having “outlived their usefulness”, I’m not sure that’s entirely true. Whistleblowers in animal testing labs and other industries apparently still contact PETA to draw attention to instances of animal abuse, sometimes after getting no response from prescribed abuse reporting procedures. I don’t like extremist loons, but I’m not really sorry to have some extremist loons subjecting reported violations of animal treatment protocols to fairly intense scrutiny. (When the extremist loons lie about such violations or illegally interfere with animal-related activities, of course, that’s another matter.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/75 "2013-06-01T03:37:05Z")
Just as an aside, this thread crashes Tapatalk every time. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/76 "2013-06-01T06:53:42Z")
I don’t think PETA is a doggie-death-cult. But I don’t see how any rational person like you, Left Hand of Dorkness, can look at PETA practices, look at the statistics, look at the quotes and the overall mentality, and come to any other conclusion that PETA is pure evil incarnate and that while they may not “enjoy” killing animals, they definitely think it’s better than them being pets. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/77 "2013-06-01T06:54:42Z")
Wow. OK, let me get back to why I pitted PETA in the first place. I certainly agree with their stance that “no kill” shelters aren’t really the way to go. I also like how they are fighting for these dogs to be put down humanely. Absolutely I am on board with that. However, there is one telling stat. This facility is not accepting animals from other agencies. Look at the link in the OP. They have accepted zero. It’s really quite easy to read between the lines. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/78 "2013-06-01T07:10:33Z")
The above wasn’t addressed at **drewtwo99** , but rather at some of the surprising responses. I know it’s the pit and we all love to argue here, but come on, look at the actual data. I gave raw numbers in the O.P. and I _really_ don’t think you can excuse PETA if you actually look at those. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/79 "2013-06-01T17:06:17Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I don’t think PETA is a doggie-death-cult. But I don’t see how any rational person like you, Left Hand of Dorkness, can look at PETA practices, look at the statistics, look at the quotes and the overall mentality, and come to any other conclusion that PETA is pure evil incarnate and that while they may not “enjoy” killing animals, they definitely think it’s better than them being pets. Right! After all, what’s more liberating than death? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675/80 "2013-06-01T17:58:43Z")
Here my problem. The general public doesn’t know some of the more wacked out extremist views of PETA. Most of em probably think of PETA as those silly vegetarians that want to save the dolphins and end animal testing. And when people think “animal shelter” they think of a place where animals go and with some luck some of them get adopted out rather than euthanized. So, they have a fighting chance. So, the average person that gives an animal to the PETA animal shelter is IMO reasonably thinking “those people love animals, they’ll do their best to save the animal”, not that they have no adoption facility or even adoption hours, and the animal has a snowballs chance in hell of getting adopted out. So, PETA may not technically be lying, but IMO it is a lie of omission and or very misleading. And I think they know that’s what they are doing. And that’s why I think in this case they are being evil bastards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-is-not-just-a-punchline-they-are-evil/659675.md?page=5)