# PETA: Taking 'Too Far' Even Further **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663 "2003-02-26T16:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/61 "2003-02-27T17:45:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\* This time, though, I think they’ve horribly miscalculated, and I think that kneejerk reactions like EJsGirl are likely outcomes. > > \*\* My statement that " I will eat meat the rest of my life in protest" was kind of in jest, as I am an omnivore already and this icky advert has not changed that fact. My _reaction_, knee-jerk or not, was revulsion at the insensitivity and just plain fucked-upped-ness of PETA’s ad campaign. A horrible miscalculation? Understatement of the century. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/62 "2003-02-27T18:11:48Z")
Sorry to pick on you, **EJsgirl**. You may have said that in jest, but I do think that this latest campaign is likelier to reinforce negative images of animal-rights folks, and by extension of anyone who works on behalf of the concerns of nonhuman animals. It gives ethical vegetarians a bad rep. I’m not sure how to make “horrible miscalculation” less of an understatement. I disagree vehemently with this campaign: it’s in deadly poor taste, it invokes Godwin, it’s hypocritical (I hope – otherwise, they oughtta be organizing the equivalent of the French Underground, not just making melodramatic ads), and it’s terrible tactics. Is that better? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/63 "2003-02-27T20:04:27Z")
Sorry Daniel, I got a little riled up there! 🙂 It ain’t about you at all. Stuff like this does give vegetarians a bad rap. It’s funny, I asked a vegetarian friend of mine what she thought of PETA, and she thinks they’re lame too. I am still trying to picture the marketing meeting where some idiot said “yeah baby, run with that!” ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/64 "2003-02-27T22:01:41Z")
If we’re not supposed to eat animals, then why did they make them out of meat? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/65 "2003-02-27T22:17:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ivar \* > \*\*If we’re not supposed to eat animals, then why did they make them out of meat? \*\* BWAHAHAHAHA! You and X~Slayer need to get together and, I dunno, make bumper stickers or something. Your wit is as devastating as it is original! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/66 "2003-02-28T02:27:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yeticus Rex \* > \*\*So, in effect, PETA has “Jumped the shark”! 😃 \*\* PETA will never jump the shark. Shameless exploitation of animals is evil, remember? Shameless exploitation of humans, however, seems to be perfectly fine, as we see here… ---
**Author:** ![mrsface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@mrsface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrsface)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/67 "2003-02-28T03:11:11Z")
I think PETA’s big mistake is to suggest that Auschwitz and factory farms for hens are morally equivalent. It is obvious to me, and by the sound of it to most others here, that they are not. However I do think it is possible to see cruelty, together with abuse of power, as a continuum or scale. The Nazi concentration camps represent the most extreme form of what human beings are capable of doing to other human beings. They also represent the most extreme consequence of what happens when human beings de-humanise other human beings. I would also argue that factory-farming involves both abuse of power and cruelty, but the comparison ends there unless you think hens suffer as people suffer. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/68 "2003-02-28T04:24:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mrsface \* > \*\* > I would also argue that factory-farming involves both abuse of power and cruelty, but the comparison ends there unless you think hens suffer as people suffer. \*\* Wait a sec, this part confuses me. Suffering just involves physical pain and discomfort, right? And animals DO have pain receptors, right? So how can anyone argue that animals don’t suffer? I mean, it’s another issue entirely whether we should take that pain into account as we do a human’s, but I would’ve thought that we at least acknowledged that animals DO feel pain years ago… ---
**Author:** ![mrsface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@mrsface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrsface)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/69 "2003-02-28T05:04:08Z")
Yes of course I know that animals feel pain - sorry if my wording was ambiguous, I’m certainly not arguing that animals don’t suffer. My point is that the suffering is of a different quality (though even this is debatable I suppose because how do we know?). What appears to be true is that while animals suffer physical pain, they do not have human capacity to anticipate pain (which makes it so much worse) or knowledge of death. I admit I find the whole question of animal rights/animal suffering quite tortuous…don’t have any simple answers. Might have to come back to board tomorrow as it’s 5am here in UK and brain is muddy… ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/70 "2003-02-28T05:53:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by mrsface \* > \*\* What appears to be true is that while animals suffer physical pain, they do not have human capacity to anticipate pain (which makes it so much worse) or knowledge of death._\* Knowledge of death, perhaps, but I always interpreted an abused dog’s cowering when faced with anger or a raised hand as a sign of anticipating pain; at the very least it’s a Pavlovian reaction. Or did you mean that animals can’t dwell on it and be afraid of it outside of the moment, as humans can? ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/71 "2003-02-28T06:06:22Z")
[Southpark]Dude, this is pretty fucked up, right here.[/] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*I don’t get it. Is PETA insinuating that McDonald’s puts Jew in their burgers? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/72 "2003-02-28T06:07:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > \*\*I think you’re missing the point of the ads. The point (as I read them) is that they’re making a comparison between the treatment of Holocaust victims and the treatment of animals to be slaughtered. Emaciated person \> emaciated cow. \*\* I dare say that there are few cows who are intended to be slaughtered who are emiciated; that sort of defeats the purpose of raising an animal for food. Wouldn’t the better comparison be 40 fat cows\> 40 obese humans? ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/73 "2003-02-28T07:35:30Z")
I wonder how many PETA members are as apt to identify themselves are the members of other groups and associations. Especially with the crap they smear all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![mrsface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@mrsface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrsface)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/74 "2003-02-28T13:40:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > \*\* > Or did you mean that animals can’t dwell on it and be afraid of it outside of the moment, as humans can? \*\* Yes, exactly that. It is imagination that makes the difference. The flicker of pain I feel at the dentists, for example, is a tiny fraction of the pain I experienced after scalding my leg. Yet it is the dentist that fills me with dread, not the kettle. Why? Because at the dentist I’m sitting in the chair visualising the drill penetrating a nerve, while the scald took me by surprise. But, having said that, the other reason why being at the dentist is unpleasant is the experience of powerlessness. You could argue that farm animals’ experience of powerlessness and confinement is highly unnatural for them and a source of distress. ---
**Author:** ![ShoNuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@ShoNuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShoNuff)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/75 "2003-02-28T19:15:01Z")
Looks like the ADL is getting into the act. [See the CNN article.](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/28/peta.holocaust/index.html) [Here’s the ADL’s article](http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/4235_52.asp) > [@](#): > > **From the ADL:** > The Height of Chutzpah. No doubt. ---
**Author:** ![BrentLumkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@BrentLumkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrentLumkin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/76 "2003-03-02T06:24:02Z")
I just emailed the following to them… > [@](#): > > I read this on your site… > > “Please contact us directly at 757-622-7382 or via e-mail at [info@peta.org](mailto:info@peta.org) to help PETA plant the seeds of kindness, compassion, and respect for all living beings on your campus.” > > …and that is what I’m doing right now. I would be more than willing to help you “plant the seeds of kindness, compassion, and respect for all living beings”, but there is a small problem I have come across. As I looked over the site where I found the above quote, I did not see very much “kindness, compassion, or respect” at all. No, instead I found pictures, quotes, and much more which is seemingly doing the exact oppisite. > > How could an organazation such as PETA uphold such a marketing ploy? How could PETA use a travesty such as the holocaust of all things for personal gain. Please, don’t tell me that this isn’t what you are doing, because it is blatant obvious. I could sit here and list a million different ways to get your points across, so I know you are not that desperate for ideas to spread your message. How could anyone actually think that using this travesty to promote your message would be a good thing? > > As I sit here now looking at your site, looking over what you say and looking over hte pictures, I am disgusted. I see pictures of human beings being tortured, murdered, starving, sick, and dead, next to pictures of pigs and the such in piles. I see pictures of men and women just like me and you (although now after I read your site, I must even question if even YOU are human) behind fences next to pictures of pigs and chickens behind fences. You make me sick, your new “marketing ploy” makes me sick, and it is only a matter of time before everyone realizes this. > > On the site, I read you people calling me, and millions upon millions of other human beings, nazi’s for doing nothing more than what God intended us to do. I am personlly insulted that you would put me in the exact same group with those people. Those people who murdered inocent men, women, and children, HUMAN BEINGS just like myself. > > I am all for promoting “kindness, compassion, or respect for all living beings”, I’m all for that totally. However, I will be doing so on my own, and with groups who share that exact same belief. I will do so with people who are not living in some sort of fantasy world. I will do so with people and with groups who understand that it is WRONG to use a tradegy such as the holocaust for personal gain, to get your point across, and to convert people to believe as yourself. I’ll give you people some advice… > > …before you go and ask people to “plant the seeds of kindness, compassion, and respect for all living beings”, I advise you to look up those words and get to know them. You obviously have no idea, no idea at all, what they mean. > > After this mess, I must now sit back and wonder “what’s next?”. Are you going to proclaim that all who eat meat are no better for terrorists, seeing how they have no compassion for innocent human life, and start a proclaim using images from 9/11 and the such. To be honest, I wouldn’t be shocked, you’ve already went over the edge from where I sit. > > Sincerely, > …Brent “Downhome” Lumkin… …yeah, like they’ll read it. ---
**Author:** ![BrentLumkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@BrentLumkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrentLumkin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/77 "2003-03-02T06:46:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dryga\_Yes \* > \*\*I’m not terribly offended either. If you accept that human suffering and animal suffering are equivalent (which they do), then that would indeed mean that the meat industry is just as bad as the holocaust. This doesn’t imply that the holocaust was something to take lightly, just that the meat industry is really _really_ awful. I don’t agree with them, but I can certainly see how they could think so. \*\* I do believe that the reason people are putting them down so much is because of they blatantly using the holocaust as a marketing ploy. They are trying to get people who feel sorry for the jews, to feel sorry for animals, thus the pictures side by side, it’s just horrible. No one should use such a tragedy as the holocaust for any type of gain. I could think up millions of ideas for them to pull, but not this rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/78 "2003-03-02T07:19:01Z")
Oh, it’s been even “better” than this. We have a really bad murder case going on up here right now. A pig farmer out in Port Coquitlam, (close to Vancouver), is accused of killing at least fifteen women. Apparently PETA had planned to use this in a campaign, but actually decided not to after all. My computer is on dial-up, and slower than the proverbial molassas in January. Does anyone have a cite on this? It should be in the Vancouver Province, just before or after Christmas. Idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Splanky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@Splanky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Splanky)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/79 "2003-03-02T07:31:40Z")
I’d just like to add that as a Jew I’m shocked and horrified by this. Words truly can’t describe the anger I experienced when I first saw this on the news. I hope this is taken down VERY quickly and PETA is ostracised by the rest of the country and fades into obscurity forever. ---
**Author:** ![mystic2311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mystic2311](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mystic2311)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2003, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663/80 "2003-03-02T08:57:43Z")
PETA has done the world a disservice. Now Palestinian suicide bombers will know to disguise themselves as donkeys so that Americans will have sympathy for them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-taking-too-far-even-further/157663.md?page=5)