# PETA to sue Sea World for slavery **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 28, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027 "2011-10-28T00:43:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/1 "2011-10-28T00:43:03Z")
> [@](#): > > People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals plans Wednesday to sue Sea World for allegedly violating the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution – which bans slavery – by keeping orcas at parks in San Diego and Orlando, Fla., organization officials said Tuesday. > > The lawsuit, set to be filed in San Diego federal court, is considered the first of its kind and, if successful, would represent a large enhancement of the animal-rights movement. > . > . > . > “All five of these orcas were violently seized from the ocean and taken from their families as babies,” said PETA President Ingred Newkirk. > > PETA officials note that the 13th Amendment prohibits slavery but does appear to limit the ban only to human beings. “Slavery is slavery,” said PETA general counsel Jeffrey Kerr. From [this article in the LA Times.](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/peta-plans-wednesday-to-sue-sea-world-for-violating-the-13th-amendment-to-the-us-constitution-_-which-bans-slavery-_-by-kee.html) For debate: is this tactic in any way, shape, manner, or form helpful to PETA’s cause? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/2 "2011-10-28T00:52:46Z")
Hmmm…free publicity when their lawyer gets hit with Rule 11 sanctions and an epic tongue lashing from the bench? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/3 "2011-10-28T00:53:25Z")
Saying there moral/legal equivalence between captive animals and enslaved humans is pretty offensive. That said this is one of the few matters I do agree with PETA on. The way large intelligent sea-mammals are held in captivity in small tanks does seem pretty cruel to me. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/4 "2011-10-28T00:56:36Z")
It’s absurd and offensive and will be summarily dismissed. There are already legitimate ways to ensure that animals are not abused: there are regulations – stiff ones! – on the treatment of zoo animals. If PETA believe that Sea World abuses orcas, they should organize a letter-writing campaign to their elected representatives, who have the power to draft further, more protective regulations. A childish whine in the direction of the 13th Amendment is bathos. Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/5 "2011-10-28T01:30:04Z")
I wonder if we should restore the laws forcibly confining the insane, ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/6 "2011-10-28T01:31:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > For debate: is this tactic in any way, shape, manner, or form helpful to PETA’s cause? Certainly, if it at least gets people to think about the question, where they might not have before, of what is the ethical difference between a human and a whale, or a seal, or a do- erm, enslaved wolf. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/7 "2011-10-28T01:44:17Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It’s absurd and offensive and will be summarily dismissed. > > There are already legitimate ways to ensure that animals are not abused: there are regulations – stiff ones! – on the treatment of zoo animals. If PETA believe that Sea World abuses orcas, they should organize a letter-writing campaign to their elected representatives, who have the power to draft further, more protective regulations. A childish whine in the direction of the 13th Amendment is bathos. > > Trinopus Well said. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/8 "2011-10-28T01:47:15Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I wonder if we should restore the laws forcibly confining the insane, Can they be trained to swim through hoops? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/9 "2011-10-28T01:54:42Z")
Does PETS even have standing to sue on behalf of animals? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/10 "2011-10-28T01:56:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > For debate: is this tactic in any way, shape, manner, or form helpful to PETA’s cause? You’d be hard pressed to find a bigger bleeding heart liberal animal lover than me and even I think PETA is nucking futs. They have been for a long time (perhaps always). Their modus operandi has been and is over-the-top and merely absurd stunts aimed to grab headlines. This is another in a long line of such tactics. I seriously doubt they can claim to be effective in their stated goal as few take them seriously at all. Indeed they probably do more damage to their cause than help. They exist merely to exist and provide some paychecks and keep their founder in the limelight. They are the Westboro Baptist Church version of animal rights groups. I wish they weren’t (vaguely) on my side. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/11 "2011-10-28T01:58:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They are the Westboro Baptist Church version of animal rights groups. Gaia Hates Slavers! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/12 "2011-10-28T02:00:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > For debate: is this tactic in any way, shape, manner, or form helpful to PETA’s cause? No. It will consolidate them in the public’s mind as a bunch of idjits with too much time on their hands and very marginal views of animal rights. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/13 "2011-10-28T02:03:21Z")
It may boost publicity for their porn site. ([Safe for work link](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/19/peta-porn-site_n_931509.html).) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/14 "2011-10-28T02:21:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You’d be hard pressed to find a bigger bleeding heart liberal animal lover than me and even I think PETA is nucking futs. They have been for a long time (perhaps always). > > Their modus operandi has been and is over-the-top and merely absurd stunts aimed to grab headlines. This is another in a long line of such tactics. I seriously doubt they can claim to be effective in their stated goal as few take them seriously at all. Indeed they probably do more damage to their cause than help. They exist merely to exist and provide some paychecks and keep their founder in the limelight. > > They are the Westboro Baptist Church version of animal rights groups. > > I wish they weren’t (vaguely) on my side. I totally agree with you, BUT… don’t forget the preamble to the Constitution of this fine United States: > [@](#): > > We the **Creatures** of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. What? It doesn’t say that? Anyways, yes - just more crazy tactics from PETA. Pretty neutral impact I’d say. Their supporters think it’s a brilliant legal argument. Everyone else thinks, “same ol’ PETA!” And we all go back occupying wherever we are currently occupying (the couch in my case). ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/15 "2011-10-28T02:28:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > For debate: is this tactic in any way, shape, manner, or form helpful to PETA’s cause? I’ve always assumed PETA’s cause was making the public equate animal rights activists with “lunatics who can easily be ignored,” so yeah, this should help out with that. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/16 "2011-10-28T02:49:45Z")
13th amendment: > [@](#): > > Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. > > Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.[2] slavery def: 1. the condition of a slave; bondage. 2. the keeping of slaves as a practice or institution. another slavery def 1. ``` the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one **person** has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune ``` 2. ``` the subjection of a **person** to another person, esp in being forced into work ``` slave def: 1. a **person** who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. * * * Ok, Peta’s claims are inconsistent with the both dictionaries at [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com). **As long as they spell their name right…** As for the op: do the antics of Bachman, Cain or Santorum help advance their election? No, but that’s not the point: their business model involves the creation of drama and the harvesting of the credulous. And funding aside, drama is its own reward at least for certain temperaments; nothing delivers quite the _frisson_ of being on the side of the angels. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/17 "2011-10-28T02:56:50Z")
From the quote in the OP: “PETA officials note that the 13th Amendment prohibits slavery but does appear to limit the ban only to human beings.” Yes, it does “appear” to be so. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/18 "2011-10-28T02:57:56Z")
> [@Sudden\_Kestrel](#): > > I’ve always assumed PETA’s cause was making the public equate animal rights activists with “lunatics who can easily be ignored,” so yeah, this should help out with that. [puts on tinfoil hat] PETA is really an arm of the beef/poultry industry meant to discredit animal rights activists via their crazy tactics. [/takes off tinfoil hat] [sub]I do not really believe that in case it was not clear.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/19 "2011-10-28T04:29:15Z")
On the plus side, maybe they’ll get some young nubile starlets to pose naked in support of the cause… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027/20 "2011-10-28T04:43:40Z")
I’ve never been clear just what exactly PETA’s cause is. Sea World’s cause is to try to bring about better treatment of the inhabitants of 70% of the Earth’s surface, but I’m reasonably sure that PETA’s cause, whatever it is, is not consistent with that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peta-to-sue-sea-world-for-slavery/601027.md?page=2)