Not necessarily. The hamster my ex bought a couple years ago is a male, but he keeps his family jewels in a pouch where they’re not immediately obvious. We didn’t even believe the vet when they told us his gender. Then we saw him whip 'em out one day for cleaning and maintenance.
So if a chain store employee isn’t familiar with the procedures for sexing hamsters, they might put a male or two in with the females without realizing it.
Actually these are not wild rats that are sold in petstores, they’re called “fancy rats” because they have been domesticated from a line of stringently domesticated lab rats. These kinds of rats have never even touched grass, let alone a sewer: therefore, these rats would not survive in the worst of conditions all over the planet.
Also, there are dozens of clubs and associations that work to improve the lives and living conditions of rats by educating people like you that think they know about rats because they know that rats live in sewers. Pine bedding is outrageous because it *does * cause infections in rats and it should be common sense not to use it to anyone that owns, breeds, or sells rats. It should also be common sense that all domesticated rats carry a dormant disease called mycoplasma, and when exposed to something like pine bedding, can get a respiratory infection that will trigger mycoplasma – which basically gives them a worse infection, in the most basic of terms, and if gone untreated will kill the rat.
Petcetera is obviously run by idiots, but it’s probably because the people that work there think that rats can live in any conditions and don’t need proper treatment like dogs and cats just because a different species of rat lives in sewers.
This is actually true of most rodents, but many pet stores continue to use pine bedding most likely because it’s cheap and the animals aren’t living there that long (one hopes). However, this also causes well-meaning pet owners to buy the pine and cedar (just as bad) shavings because “the pet store uses and sells it, so it must be fine”. Also, since those products smell nice, they think it will keep the cage smelling nice.
Just wanted to add my cent (not even two cents)
Petcetera? Idiots. Every pet owner I know has horror stories of these guys. When I get my dog, (from the humane society, thanks!) I plan on staying the hell away from them.
One of my friends told me about this thread, as I own currently 9 rats and am a member of several clubs dedicated to educating people like those petstore employees, and some of the people that replied to your message. Anyway, there are several sources that you can go to to take legal action, which I highly recommend you do if you don’t want to see the animals in that pet store suffering – and I say animals because they are probably not doing things like they did so ignorantly with *just * rats.
First off, someone mentioned contacting a local humane society or the ASPCA. The ASPCA will take legal action, the humane society will probably just go yell at the pet store (you may also have to surrender your rats there, but I doubt they would be adopted out, so please look at this as a last option). Check out the closest ASPCA, and talk to them about the steps you need to take (http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer).
Another thing you can do is contact R.A.T.S. – Rat Assistance and Teaching Society (http://www.petrats.org/index.html) – they like to keep tabs on petstores like your Petcetera, and will take action to help that store become more educated about rats and the proper conditions to keep them in.
BTW, keeping rats in aquariums is worse than a cage because of the poor ventilation and difficulty cleaning, but if it is big enough for the number of rats (obviously the petstore violates this, but they will never go to keeping rats in cages) and is kept clean on a regular basis, it is okay to keep them there – just not recommended. I know lots of people that use aquariums, but those are mostly temporary – like healing or birthing units. But if used and maintained properly, there is nothing wrong with aquariums… in my opinion at least, and lots of other owners.
Anyway, if you are really all that interested in learning more about rats and sharing your stories with other people, you can join the ratlist (Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos). This is about 1500 rat owners, breeders, and advocates. It is about the most valuable place to find information for any questions you may have pertaining to rats, and you will definitely be able to find people to adopt from your new litter. You will also find breeders that you should adopt from – I would never recommend new owners buy from a petstore if there is a breeder in their area. It just poses too many problems like the ones you’ve faced.
Someone already gave you the RMCA website (http://www.rmca.org/) – that has some great articles and stuff, and good links to other informative websites, breeders, and vets.
There may be rescues in your area (wherever you live), and usually those rescues have transportation services set up in case they are not in your city and you can’t travel to them. One of the biggest rescues is Kim’s Ark, but depending where you live, it may not be useful. You can check them out (http://www.kimsarkrescue.org/), and if they’re not in your area, they will probably be able to give you information about rescues that are closer to you.
Those are about the most important sources I can give you, but there are tons of links from all of those webpages and recommendations from other people… plus you can always just research on your own.
Good luck, I hope your ratties get better and you can adopt out your litter.
I hate that place.
We called it “PetCemetary” amongst ourselves. I worked there. In fact, I worked at the flagship store in Vancouver before it virus-ed it’s way across Canada. We busted our asses building all the shelf units, putting out all the new stock, hanging the big signs and didn’t complain when we had to move everything two inches to the left to appease the store CEOs. (Ok, we didn’t have to do that…)
You see, we thought that this would be fun. Working in a huge pet store! Yay! They wouldn’t hire people unless they had a few years experience in animal care and food companies like Iams, Nature’s Recipe etc would come in for seminars on their products.
Then the animals started coming in. All the reptiles escaped on the first day. The cages were completely inadequate for the little escape artists. Until they got those fixed we were catching snakes and lizards for weeks. (This was before the store was pressured by the SPCA to stop carrying exotic pets.) One of the caretakers in that section was furious that this had happened and she confronted the managers and directly asked them how much research they did on live animal care. The response was “none”.
The store started to go downhill. No, it charged downhill like a raging rhino on angeldust. I think the “raises” were the breaking point for many. Nothing like working your ass off to get this place off the ground and be offered a 25 cent raise that you had to literally fight for. The people with the know-how started leaving and the store didn’t care who they hired.
I worked for a bit in the shelter part, adopting out the dogs and cats. At least they’re doing a small part to help the shelters. (However, the shelter crew were constantly yelled at for not making enough money for the store. It made me wonder where the donation money was going to.)
Sorry for the rant. I hate that place with all the passion in my little whithered heart. Of course where I am now I have no alternative place to shop for my critters other than PetSmart. Ironic. I truly miss Tisol.
[sub]And I won’t start on the “100% Canadian owned” bullshit that PetCetera claimed, or used to claim…[/sub]
:smack: I was so wrapped up in my rant that I forgot the important bit:
Good luck with your rats! They’re wonderful pets. Fish antibiotics? Oy…
[QUOTE=Satyricon]
I gotta find homes for them soon, but nobody is interested.QUOTE]
I posted your message to the ratlist, and someone asked me to post this for you:
"http://www.rathelp.org/Shelters.html#US
Might help him/her find homes for the bubs.
Thanks,
Nat"
It is opinions like yours that cause these problems in the first place. It is obvious to me that you know nothing about domesticated rats. They are nothing like their distant wild cousins. Wild rats are the ones that can live in filth and decay but the domesticated or “Fancy Rat” are specially bred rats. They have all their wild instincts bred out of them and they cannot survive in the wild. They are bred for being pets and can’t survive in filth, in fact, these rats get sick living in unclean conditions. get your facts straight before you post here. Go get yourself a domestic rat and then come back here and tell me the same things you just said here in this forum. You won’t be able to because once you meet these kind animals you will wonder why people think the way they do about rats being dirty and mean. You have the internet obviously so go read up on fancy rats ok? Get some knowledge and then come back and post. Rats and other rodents in pets stores have the right to clean and safe living conditions just like a dog or cat does and this kind of pet store ignorance simply has to stop. Pet stores not bein knowledgable on the pets they sell is not an excuse and should not be tolorated by anyone. Plain and simply put, pet stores that violate animal laws or mistreat animals should be shut down.
I’d never thought about rats as pets, but I followed some links and they sound darling – curious, playful, affectionate. Tell me, can they be left alone for a few days, like over a holiday weekend? With a water supply and food, of course.
Rats are very affectionate and playful. You will also find that rats are also pretty intellegent as well. Each rattie has its own personality and way of interacting with you but most all rats love their humans. Rats have received a bum rap for thousands of years and because of that, many stories and myths about rats have arisen from no proof whatsoever. Did you know it wasn’t the rats that brought the plague that killed all those people hundreds of years ago? It was the humans and their filthy living conditions that started the plague. Humans brought the plague along on ships which in turn went to the fleas and then to rats. So you see, it wasn’t the rats that started the plague. We need to learn to place the blame where it should be. Domesticated rats are even better because they don’t have the instincts and temperament of their wild cousins but even the wild rats can be had as pets and it has been done many times. Domesticated rats need their humans to care for them to survive. They can’t survive in the wild at all because they don’t posses the their wild cousins natural instincts to survive in the wild, therefore they are just good for being pets and loving companions and they are not dirty and stinky, in fact, domesticated rats spend a lot of time each day grooming and staying clean. If you get a rat it is always a good idea to get two because even though your rattie will always crave your attention, there will be times when you won’t be there and that’s when the rat will need another of its kind to pass the time. Rats groom themselves and sleep cuddled together for warmth and the feeling of added security and its just nice to be able to communicate with someone of your own species right? As for leaving your rats unattended for days, I am sure that if you give them a fairly good sized and clean home and leave enough food and water they could survive a few days alone. However, this is never a good idea because anything can happen while your gone. If you have cats or other animals I wouldn’t recommend leaving your rats unattended. Also, since your thinking about getting rats to love, don’t make the mistake a lot of new rat owners do by getting them the wrong bedding. Pine or cedar or any kind of oily soft wood chips can make you rat sick or even kill. Aspen is good or better yet, shreeded newspaper or recycled paper pellets like Good Mews cat litter makes excellent bedding. Most pet shops carry the recycled paper but no cedar or pine whatever you do and I tell you this because I see this mistake happen way too much with new rattie owners. The wrong bedding can kill these animals. Also, don’t just buy your ratties and then forget about them and leave them every day to languish in thier cages. Rats are prety easy to care for but they do get bored and depressed and it could affect their health so before you get a rat or two, make sure your ready to give them at least one hour of playtime and free roam time because rats are intellegent and need variety in their lives so one hour or even more if you can and be prepared to take your ratties to the vet if needed. Yes, they are great pets and easy to keep but please don’t think there will not be expenses in their care and always keep in mind that ratties do get ill sometimes and you may need to get them vet treatment which could cost a pretty penny, or just a few bucks depending on the problem they have. In the long run, the love these little fuzzies will give you will make it all worth it believe me. Rats are wonderful creatures and you will be blessed with some playful loving friends that will shower you with affection and believeme they are really good at showing their thankfulness for your kindness. If you can handle that, then go and get your ratties and join us, the people who already know how great rats really are and join us in helping these noble creatures get their fair share of rights and fair treatment. You won’t be disappointed. God Bless and go get your rattie. Peace.
Wow, seems like this thread has made its way onto the rat web circuit.
That’s cool, reminds me of other threads where people hear about a thread (blogs/etc)and register to post on a singular topic. That’s what I love about the SDMB.
My young niece has pet rats, and they are definitely not the stereotypical sewer dwelling variety. They do have some kind of social order, and I can watch them for hours.
I hope you rat people register and become members here. 
I just might join, you never know. This seems like a good place to hang out. I love rats yes, but I care about all animals too. The pet stores out there are guilty of some very terrible treatment of helpless animals of all kinds including, but not limited to, rats, hamsters, gerbils, rabbits, snakes, birds, etc and it just can’t be allowed to continue. These people are not only treating the animals they have badly but they are also cheating the consumer. It is a shame that so many businesses mass produce animals for sale like this. Many wind up dead by starvation or sickness or even at the hands of sadistic employees. Can you imagine the mass fear and helplessness and despair in those cages and tanks? It is a very sad situation that needs our undivided attention. If there are decent people here, and so far I have seen some very good posts here, I may just join up. Yes, we are rat lovers, but we also love all animals and we believe in the rights of animals. They can’t speak for themselves so we must speak for them. They have done nothing to deserve the pain and suffering that is being inflicted and then ignored. If we all band together, this kind of behavior will stop, or at the very least be cut down to a minimum. Peace to everyone here.
No, I’m not proposing to ignore a pet on a regular basis. I mean, if you don’t want to interact with an animal, why keep one as a pet? I never understood those people who get a dog and leave it tied out in the yard, ignored except for feeding it once a day. 
The thing is, though, that my husband and I like to go away on weekend trips. Instead of taking ‘true’ vacations (like a two week trip) we take the odd Monday or Friday off, and enjoy 3 day ‘minivacations’ at least once a month. Which makes having ‘real’ pets problematic. ‘Real’ meaning an animal you can interact with, that knows and responds to you. It sounds like rats could fit that bill, but…what to do with them while away? I can’t imagine travelling with a rat cage is practical (or desireable), I’ve never heard of a place that ‘kennels’ rats… So I was hoping it would be okay to leave a cage of rats unattended from, say, a Friday morning until Sunday night? Have several water bottles (in case one is damaged), a sufficient supply of food of course.
While at college I tended the mouse room for a semester, and they were fed with cakes of compressed <something> held in racks above their heads. Accessible for gnawing, but protected from being soiled or spoiled by water bottle leakes/urination/whatever. Some similar arrangement should work for rats, surely? And as long as you have a couple to keep each other company…
The thing is, if leaving the rats alone for that length of time is abusive or likely to harm them, well then, I shouldn’t get them, of course.
Yes, you certainly can (after they get acclimatated) leave your ratty freinds alone for an occasional 3 day weekend. You wouldn’t need to do anything special for feeding them, some commercial rat food (“Rat chow”) comes in large (half-a-thumb sized) pieces that are great for storage in their cage. Only thing to worry about is that rats will sometimes spill their water bottle- either by climbing on it or otherwise knocking it down, or by getting a bit of bedding into the nozzle so that all the water drains out. So, you have to make sure the nozzle is high enough and the bottle is secure so as that won’t happen. So- keep an eye on them the first week he/they are in their new home.
Note that a solitary rat is more freindly, but in your case two might not be a bad idea- as long as they are litter mate and start out from the same batch. A female is also slighty better as the male’s urine has a bad smell.
In fact- two of the great advantages to rats as pets is that you can leave them along for a while, and that being “caged” they usually aren’t considered "pets’ on most leases. Depsite what dudes say above- pet rats are also very hardy. Not as hardy as their wild cousins true, but still tougher than many “caged” pets.
In a pinch they can eat almost anything you do. (never feed them meat, however- it sometimes changes their temperment for the worse). One of their most endearing characteristics is their love of treats- like a bit of P-nut butter on a cracker piece. Don’t get carried away though- they’ll get fat, just like us.
Note that even freindly & super-tame rats will CHEW . Thus, don’t leave them out to run free for extended periods. Not to mention they might get into something poison. Much harder to poison them than some other critter, yes, but there are likely mnay thing under your sink that will poison them.
At least your rats only had the respiratory infection, which, as has been mentioned, is pretty common in all rats.
The rats I got from my shiatty pet store dealer had ringworm. shows off the many bandages covering the still-healing lesions all over his left hand and arm.
Still–I’d much rather have the ringworm over the pregnant rat. I’d have no idea what to do if I suddenly had nine baby rats to deal with.
Buy a snake?
I also find the local Petcetera to be appalling. The store is poorly-kept, and the staff seem to have little knowledge about animals. (The one good thing is that the animals that they adopt come from the SPCA). The last time I was there, the small room where the cats and dogs are kept smelled so bad, I couldn’t stay in there. Animals were lying in their own filth. I adopted my cat from there, and found out that not only did he have a respiratory infection, but also worms (they verbally assured me that he was in perfect health, and had been wormed). I was none too happy with Petcetera (although he is a wonderful cat!).
I don’t understand why there are stores selling pet animals, when shelters are overflowing with pet animals that you can adopt for free [or for a nominal charge].
Why do people go to pet stores for anything other than food and other pet supplies?
Colour me puzzled. I adopted both my cats from the Humane Society, and they were both in perfect health & well cared-for. Why would I or anyone want to go to a store to buy pets in shitty health, and pay more money for the privilege? 
Malthus- did you read the thread? Petcetera sells only small caged animals, like rates, lizards and birds. Humane societies work mostly in cats & dogs- with a side of rabbits. Not lizards or mice.
Petcetera & several other pet chains (like Petsmart, which IMHO is the best of the chains) do not sell dogs& cats. Instead they have the Humane Soc, or a local rescue group come in and do ‘adoption days’, for which the store doesn’t charge anything AFAIK. For this they should be lauded. This is a great service they do.
Ultraviolet, you shoudl call the local SPCA and let them know.