# Pete Hoekstra **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939 "2012-02-06T05:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/202 "2012-02-09T19:07:55Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I find this funny, because you’re not the first person to dance around it like this. > > It’s poorly crafted because it relies on a stereotype. How offended you are by the stereotype determines whether you’re willing to call it racist/bigoted, but the reason you call it poorly crafted and the reason we’re calling it bigoted are the same. Tell me how you would have done the ad. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/203 "2012-02-09T19:13:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You karate training! I am a master of Cringing Mantis Kung Fu. My enemy never realizes the power of my _kung fu_ because I hide it behind an impenetrable mask of begging for mercy. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/204 "2012-02-09T19:21:41Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > Tell me how you would have done the ad. I wouldn’t, because I think the message is bullshit. I also don’t see what I would be proving to you, since you think the ad is poorly crafted also. Setting that aside, I’d have done one like the professor linked to a couple of pages ago, or perhaps someone speaking fluent but accented English (instead of the bullshit pidgin) sitting in an office talking cheerfully about how prosperous and powerful China is getting now that they’re taking our jobs. “I’m sorry you’re fading away, America, but it’s our turn now.” It would still be going after the audience’s jingoism, but at least it wouldn’t be portraying China as some uppity third world country. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/205 "2012-02-09T19:26:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I am a master of Cringing Mantis Kung Fu. My enemy never realizes the power of my _kung fu_ because I hide it behind an impenetrable mask of begging for mercy. An interesting technique. I’ve seen it in action. Very impressive. I’m still more in favour of Jaw Shit D’oh, the technique by which one intercepts and blocks punches with one’s face ; kicks or knees with one’s groin. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/206 "2012-02-10T02:01:15Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I’m not sure where you’re going with this, and as you’ve yet to answer my questions I don’t think it’s poor manners to ask for a clarification before we go any farther. Especially since I’m the one saying that the Hoekstra ad isn’t racist and isn’t any worse than comparable depictions of other races that are present in other forms of (less political) media. Because, like art, racism has a context. If you see an image like [this](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Swastika_doorstep_crop.jpg), we might be momentarily alarmed because we recognize the symbol from another racist context. However, in this case, the symbol exists only within a completely separate context of a Hindu religious symbol. In the case of political ads like “Hands” or Willie Horton (and I understand you now disagree with the latter), the issue of race is central to the fear and anger that that the ads are attempting to use for electoral advantage. The message of “Hands” is blatantly racist: “Hey white men, black people are coming to take your jobs away from you… Are you going to vote for the black candidate?” Depictions of African-Americans in a show like The Wire places the issue of crime and African-Americans in a completely different context. The criminals in that show aren’t boogeymen intended to scare the audience, they are multi-layered characters that are scary one moment, human and vulnerable the next, family members another minute, and so on. The reason that depicting scary drug dealers in The Wire isn’t a racist depiction is because they are not mono-dimensional walking stereotypes intended to evoke anger, they are presented as humans that the audience has to deal with on a realistic level to understand their depravity and evil nature. Just look at the hitmen: they are the most stone-cold killers one can imagine, but the real evil is that you have to see their evilness through their portrayal as humans. Getting back to the ad in question, the context is so clear that one has to be culturally illiterate or deliberately obtuse not to recognize it. The actress is literally a Charlie Chan-type character that is threatening the American people with the Yellow Peril, and a political opponent is responsible for it. Run down the list of Chinese stereotypes for how the century-and-a-half old Yellow Peril was represented, and this ad checks 85% of those boxes. If she was wearing thick glasses, mixed up 'l’s and 'r’s, and had buck teeth, the list would be complete. It even throws in the image of the “me like you long time” stereotype just to add a new twist to help the audience think less of the character in the ad. The ad is racist because it is so blatantly, clearly, and intentionally a Yellow Peril message that is predicated on making people angry and scared about Asians taking their jobs. One does not have to even look into the subtext of the ad to see this, it’s right there in the… the… what’s that layer that’s above the subtext? Oh yeah, it’s the TEXT. I think that if the people who deny the racism of the ad were alive 70 years ago, they’d look at a cartoon like [this](http://sojuandi.blogsome.com/images/21013acs.jpg) and say, “What’s the big deal? That’s what those guys look like. How else are you supposed to represent them?” ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/207 "2012-02-10T17:43:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Still can’t understand the mind set that hires an American actress of Asian extraction who speaks entirely unaccented American and then shoehorn in some grammatical stupidity to make her seem…what? more authentic? I think its part economics (not wanting to find and pay a girl who can actually speak english with a chinese accent) and part knowing that the average person is not very smart. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/208 "2012-02-10T19:31:19Z")
I cringed when I saw the ad. I half expected the actress to say “I love you long time” Regardless of intent, the ad should have been apologized for once it was made clear to Hoekstra that Asians found the ad offensive. We can argue about whether Asians are being hypersensitive by being offended by this sort of ad in a state that fines people $3000 for killing Asians or whether or not someone like Rand Rover is in a better position than an Asians to determine whether or not the ads are offensive. But the ad does not exist in a vaccuum where its simply some [hot] Asian chick riding a bicyle using deliberately broken English to highlight that Chinese are somehow our enemy. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/209 "2012-02-10T19:38:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I half expected the actress to say “I love you long time” Is this a meme? I keep seeing it, but have no reference for it. > [@](#): > > Regardless of intent, the ad should have been apologized for once it was made clear to Hoekstra that Asians found the ad offensive. I haven’t read every post in this thread - did Chinese people find this ad offense? Did they state why? > [@](#): > > We can argue about whether Asians are being hypersensitive by being offended by this sort of ad in a state that fines people $3000 for killing Asians WHAT??? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/210 "2012-02-10T20:03:50Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Is this a meme? I keep seeing it, but have no reference for it. It’s from Full Metal Jacket. It’s a very well-recognized pop culture reference. Shit, I’ve never seen the movie and I know the reference. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Metal_Jacket#Cast): > [@](#): > > Papillon Soo Soo as Da Nang Hooker. An attractive and scantily dressed prostitute. She is memorable for the phrases, “Me love you long time”, “Me so horny”, and “Me sucky sucky”. It’s entered pop culture as a stereotype of Asians. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/211 "2012-02-10T21:54:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you explain how that helps understand if the ad in question is racist or not? I"m just not getting it. It helps because it can establish that the message of the ad is irrelevant. The argument of an ad can be valid, but it’s presentation can be patently unfair, or racist. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/212 "2012-02-10T22:22:18Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Is this a meme? I keep seeing it, but have no reference for it. As mentioned already, it’s a well-recognized pop-cultural meme from the movie\* Full Metal Jacket.\* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tce-THLUE&feature=player\_embedded](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tce-THLUE&feature=player_embedded) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/213 "2012-02-10T22:32:56Z")
It strikes me as clearly racist. There’s a damned gong in the beginning, for god’s sake. I think I’ll stick with [this parody ad](http://shanghaiist.com/2012/02/08/pete-hoekstra-parody.php) instead. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/214 "2012-02-10T22:52:45Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Is this a meme? I keep seeing it, but have no reference for it. You’re not American are you? > [@](#): > > I haven’t read every post in this thread - did Chinese people find this ad offense? Did they state why? Elected Chinese Republicans have withdrawn their endorsement of Hoekstra. > [@](#): > > WHAT??? > **[Killing of Vincent Chin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Vincent_Chin)** > > Vincent Jen Chin (Chinese: 陳果仁; May 18, 1955 – June 23, 1982) was an American draftsman of Chinese descent who was killed in a racially motivated assault by two white men, Chrysler plant supervisor Ronald Ebens and his stepson, laid-off autoworker Michael Nitz. Ebens and Nitz assailed Chin following a brawl that took place at a strip club in Highland Park, Michigan, where Chin had been celebrating his bachelor party with friends in advance of his upcoming wedding. Against the backdrop Although... Couple of guys kill a chinese guy with a baseball bat after his bachelor party in Detroit. They pleaded down to manslaughter from second degree murder and got probation and a $3000 fine. In response to criticism, the judge said:“These weren’t the kind of men you send to jail… You don’t make the punishment fit the crime; you make the punishment fit the criminal” They both had no prior convictions. It was 30 years ago so its more in 2012 dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/215 "2012-02-10T23:50:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Because, like art, racism has a context. If you see an image like [this](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Swastika_doorstep_crop.jpg), we might be momentarily alarmed because we recognize the symbol from another racist context. However, in this case, the symbol exists only within a completely separate context of a Hindu religious symbol. > > In the case of political ads like “Hands” or Willie Horton (and I understand you now disagree with the latter), the issue of race is central to the fear and anger that that the ads are attempting to use for electoral advantage. The message of “Hands” is blatantly racist: “Hey white men, black people are coming to take your jobs away from you… Are you going to vote for the black candidate?” But in this case and in the Willie Horton, the race was window dressing. Willie Horton likely wasn’t picked because he was black, but because his crimes were memorable and were committed while out for a weekend. Same with the asian girl in the Hoekstra ad. The talk of our debt to China (while overblown and arguably misplaced at the feet of democrats) and our jobs going overseas (to Asia among other places) has been ongoing for quite some time. > [@](#): > > Depictions of African-Americans in a show like The Wire places the issue of crime and African-Americans in a completely different context. The criminals in that show aren’t boogeymen intended to scare the audience, they are multi-layered characters that are scary one moment, human and vulnerable the next, family members another minute, and so on. The reason that depicting scary drug dealers in The Wire isn’t a racist depiction is because they are not mono-dimensional walking stereotypes intended to evoke anger, they are presented as humans that the audience has to deal with on a realistic level to understand their depravity and evil nature. Just look at the hitmen: they are the most stone-cold killers one can imagine, but the real evil is that you have to see their evilness through their portrayal as humans. I don’t have anything to add to this except for how much I loved that show. > [@](#): > > Getting back to the ad in question, the context is so clear that one has to be culturally illiterate or deliberately obtuse not to recognize it. The actress is literally a Charlie Chan-type character that is threatening the American people with the Yellow Peril, and a political opponent is responsible for it. Run down the list of Chinese stereotypes for how the century-and-a-half old Yellow Peril was represented, and this ad checks 85% of those boxes. If she was wearing thick glasses, mixed up 'l’s and 'r’s, and had buck teeth, the list would be complete. It even throws in the image of the “me like you long time” stereotype just to add a new twist to help the audience think less of the character in the ad. So a chinese person in China wouldn’t have an accent, or ride a bike, and there are no rice paddies in China? They’d speak in cockney accents and tool around on snowmobiles past a White Castle? Ride camels and speak in a thick irish brogue as they’re touring the Grand Canyon? As I said way earlier in the thread, the ad left me feeling vaguely negative. In fact I’d come to the pit to see if there had been a thread on this very topic. Something about it just stuck. I leaned towards racism early on. Seemed kind of obvious, but the more I thought about it the more racism faded away. While certainly clumsy in its attempt to portray a typical chinese woman, I just don’t see it being racist. I honestly just watched a documentary called “Wild China” on Netflix instant and it wasn’t that far off from what I saw. Minus the gong that is. > [@](#): > > The ad is racist because it is so blatantly, clearly, and intentionally a Yellow Peril message that is predicated on making people angry and scared about Asians taking their jobs. One does not have to even look into the subtext of the ad to see this, it’s right there in the… the… what’s that layer that’s above the subtext? Oh yeah, it’s the TEXT. This might not make sense, but I agree with the Yellow Peril part. Just not the racism. What bothered me about the ad after consideration, and not including the debatable “facts” contained within, was that it is straight up propaganda. They are the enemy. Debbie Stabenow and her policies are giving our country to the enemy. Debbie Stabenow is the enemy. I am not the enemy. I grew up in Michigan in the 80s when the japanese and their cars were “taking our jobs.” There was a little party as part of some town celebration where you could pay a buck to have a few swings with a sledge hammer at a Honda or Toyota or Subaru. Can’t remember which. Point was that we hated them. They were the enemy. Even then though, still wasn’t racism. > [@](#): > > I think that if the people who deny the racism of the ad were alive 70 years ago, they’d look at a cartoon like [this](http://sojuandi.blogsome.com/images/21013acs.jpg) and say, “What’s the big deal? That’s what those guys look like. How else are you supposed to represent them?” I actually can’t see the picture through my browser (google chrome in this case), but I’m pretty sure I can imagine what it is. Exaggerated physical characteristics probably (correct me if I’m mistaken). For that to be comparable, there would have to be a similar exaggeration of characteristics in the ad. Even in your post, you reference what I’d guess would be similar characteristics of appearance and accent but acknowledge that they aren’t present in the ad itself. So where is the exaggeration that compares? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/216 "2012-02-11T02:57:41Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > It’s from Full Metal Jacket. It’s a very well-recognized pop culture reference. Shit, I’ve never seen the movie and I know the reference. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Metal_Jacket#Cast):It’s entered pop culture as a stereotype of Asians. Not that it matters, but it’s definitely older than that. I remember it from the 70s. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/217 "2012-02-11T03:17:44Z")
Puppy. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/218 "2012-02-11T04:19:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [Killing of Vincent Chin - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Vincent_Chin) > > Couple of guys kill a chinese guy with a baseball bat after his bachelor party in Detroit. They pleaded down to manslaughter from second degree murder and got probation and a $3000 fine. > > In response to criticism, the judge said:“These weren’t the kind of men you send to jail… You don’t make the punishment fit the crime; you make the punishment fit the criminal” They both had no prior convictions. > > It was 30 years ago so its more in 2012 dollars. It’s mentioned in the article, but I think it bears reiterating here that those guys who beat Vincent Chin to death were American auto workers angry about the Japanese “taking their jobs.” Around here, Asian xenophobia is still something of a sore spot (if you drive a Japanese car in Detroit, expect some comments at your expense), and this ad poked it with a stick. Interestingly, while Hoekstra has not apologized, he has [quietly replaced the ad](http://www.freep.com/article/20120210/NEWS15/202100357) with something far less inflammatory and pulled the website. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/219 "2012-02-11T09:46:44Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Around here, Asian xenophobia is still something of a sore spot (if you drive a Japanese car in Detroit, expect some comments at your expense) There are _people_ in Detroit, driving around in cars? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/220 "2012-02-11T14:08:21Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > There are _people_ in Detroit, driving around in cars? Sure there are! I even have [video.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLCmcV4gC_0) ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/221 "2012-02-11T18:19:00Z")
Ha ha ha. WTF. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939.md?page=12)