# Pete Hoekstra **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939 "2012-02-06T05:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/21 "2012-02-06T18:35:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Would you see it if it was a barefoot black boy munching on watermelon speaking black English? I saw at least one person pointing out that the actress speaks broken English, but in an American accent- which really doesn’t make any sense but might feel less racist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/22 "2012-02-06T18:40:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess if you’re looking for that, you can see it. I’m telling you what I’m seeing, not what I was looking for. > [@](#): > > Should have been a more stereotypical buck-teethed, glasses wearing, Mao jacket sporting, “Chinaman”. It’s definitely supposed to be scary, since we’re supposed to understand this is a dangerous development that will make the U.S. economy get very weak and the Chinese economy get very good. She’s delivering threatening lines over some ominous music with a smile. The argument is whether it’s racist or not, and I’d say it’s playing to the same fears while being a tiny bit more subtle than the buck-toothed Chinaman figures you saw during World War II or the Mao stuff you might’ve seen a bit later. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/23 "2012-02-06T18:42:38Z")
The message is supposed to be scary, but the woman isn’t. Every negative political ad is supposed to be scary. Doesn’t make them racist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/24 "2012-02-06T19:08:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The message is supposed to be scary, but the woman isn’t. I didn’t say she was, but I admit “China! Scary!” is not very nuanced wording. The racist part is getting an actress to speak broken English in your ad as part of a message about how your opponent is going to wreck the U.S. economy and make the Chinese economy stronger. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/25 "2012-02-06T19:08:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > These posts are fascinating. It’s sort of like watching a hamster try to argue, isn’t it? Or some kind of small mammal. They’re scratching and clawing and you can see the effort, but there’s no actual capacity to argue. Allow me to educate you. The proposition is that this ad is racist. So far, so one has made an argument in favor of that proposition, they’ve only asserted its truth. Therefore, saying simply “nuh-uh!” is a perfectly valid response at this juncture. You seem to believe the proposition is true. Care to actually make an argument to that effect? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/26 "2012-02-06T19:29:43Z")
The argument is that (a) racial stereotypes are used to (b) introduce and/or reinforce a negative association about a given race. Now the only quibbles seems to about whether the stereotypes being used are negative and whether or not the message is one that attempts to portray a given race (or members thereof) as inferior or objects of fear and derision. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/27 "2012-02-06T20:01:08Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > The argument is that (a) racial stereotypes are used to (b) introduce and/or reinforce a negative association about a given race. What racial stereotype? Do most Chinese speak fluent English? It isn’t a stereotype if it’s true. And just because the actor isn’t very good, that doesn’t make it a stereotype. What negative association about a race is being made? “China” is not a race. And it’s not even negative about China. The message is that Chinese are being smart and our politicians are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/28 "2012-02-06T20:16:59Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Looks pretty sleazy. But of \*course \*it’s not racist: racism only exists when it’s introduced by a white man in blackface who pulls off a Klan hood and says “and now, for something completely racist!” Just don’t point it out, then you’d be playing the race card. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/29 "2012-02-06T20:23:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What racial stereotype? Do most Chinese speak fluent English? **It isn’t a stereotype if it’s true.** And just because the actor isn’t very good, that doesn’t make it a stereotype. I disagree with the bolded part. In fact, most stereotypes are at least partly true - that’s the point. “Chinese people speak poor English” and “Chinese people are hard workers that will take our jobs” are both stereotypes. > [@](#): > > What negative association about a race is being made? “China” is not a race. And it’s not even negative about China. The message is that Chinese are being smart and our politicians are stupid. This part is probably true, although I could see how “they’re going to take our money and our jobs” would be seen as negative by lots of people. Either way, to me the ad is more laughable than racist, and extremely weird. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/30 "2012-02-06T20:25:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What racial stereotype? Do most Chinese speak fluent English? It isn’t a stereotype if it’s true. And just because the actor isn’t very good, that doesn’t make it a stereotype. > > What negative association about a race is being made? “China” is not a race. And it’s not even negative about China. The message is that Chinese are being smart and our politicians are stupid. If that was the message, it could have been made by an actress speaking proper English. The message was “Be afraid! Be very afraid! The Yellow Peril is going to get us! We’re doomed, doomed we say! And to think we’re going in debt to these gooks who can’t even talk right!” This is dog whistle politics at its finest. Offer a fig leaf of deniability for the apologists to hide behind, but (wink, wink), we all know it’s really about _them_, don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/31 "2012-02-06T20:27:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What racial stereotype? Do most Chinese speak fluent English? It isn’t a stereotype if it’s true. Please don’t join the hamsters here. The bad English comes off as stereotypical. That’s not an assertion about the English skills of all Chinese. If the Chinese government were making an ad that put its best face forward to English speaking businesses, would their actress say “Debbie spend so much American money… your economy get very weak, ours get very good?” > [@](#): > > And just because the actor isn’t very good, that doesn’t make it a stereotype. Do you mean you think she was supposed to be speaking unbroken English and couldn’t? That’s a really bizarre theory. Actors don’t get cast by accident. You get what you’re looking for and these things have directors. And she didn’t seem to have any kind of Chinese or non-English accent, so in real life her English is probably fine. The way she spoke was a choice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/32 "2012-02-06T20:28:54Z")
I agree that it’s a laughable ad, mainly because the actress playing the Chinese person is not very good. Which is nothing new in political ads. The OP equates this with someone courting the KKK vote. Even if it were true that he was appealing to people who had some irrational fear of Chinese taking “our jobs” away, that’s a far cry from someone who would go out and lynch a black guy for looking the wrong way at a white woman, or for just being black. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/33 "2012-02-06T21:02:12Z")
I saw the ad, and I swear I thought the chick was Vietnamese, and the countryside was Viet Nam. I guess I was disoriented… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/34 "2012-02-06T21:09:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I saw the ad, and I swear I thought the chick was Vietnamese, and the countryside was Viet Nam. I guess I was disoriented… Well, they all look… no, can’t bring myself to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/35 "2012-02-06T21:09:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The OP equates this with someone courting the KKK vote. Even if it were true that he was appealing to people who had some irrational fear of Chinese taking “our jobs” away, that’s a far cry from someone who would go out and lynch a black guy for looking the wrong way at a white woman, or for just being black. Fair enough. It has lots of that dog-whistle goodness but it’s not insinuating anybody should die. Let me offer this with regard to the way the actress speaks: would it be less effective if she conjugated her verbs correctly and said “Debbie spent so much American money?” Or if “your economy got weak and ours got very strong?” I don’t think it would. I think her lines were scripted that way to emphasize the foreign-ness of the character. The ad was filmed in California, and the actress certainly sounded Californian to me. [Here’s the website Hoekstra’s people set up for people who watched the ad.](http://debbiespenditnow.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/36 "2012-02-06T21:15:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I saw the ad, and I swear I thought the chick was Vietnamese, and the countryside was Viet Nam. I guess I was disoriented… They meant to do it. I don’t think that the ad location was an occident. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/37 "2012-02-06T21:15:21Z")
I read from our good friends over at _Daily Kos_ that he posted the ad on You Tube, but had the good sense to disable the like-dislike function. So, they can learn. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/38 "2012-02-06T21:15:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I saw the ad, and I swear I thought the chick was Vietnamese, and the countryside was Viet Nam. I guess I was disoriented… I had exactly the same reaction. After watching for 20 seconds, I was hoping that some dude in black pajamas and one of those conical straw hats would jump out of the rice paddy shooting an AK-47, only to have a Republican mow him down with two fully legal, pre-assault weapons ban M-60s, both shot from the hip. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/39 "2012-02-06T21:22:38Z")
Of course her lines were scripted to emphasize that she’s foreign. She’s supposed to be Chinese. It’s a really, really, bad and embarrassing ad. But bad does not equal racist. And that web site is even worse. If I went there thinking I wanted to contribute, I’d probably not do so, thinking it was a scam. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/40 "2012-02-06T21:24:37Z")
Whoever her ancestors were, she needed the money really bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939.md?page=3)