# Pete Hoekstra **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939 "2012-02-06T05:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/121 "2012-02-07T15:51:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You guys are criticizing the style, as if just because there might be a better way to convey the message (in your minds) that this ad must be racist. But people often make a less than optimally effective ad for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which that it often costs more money to make a really good, optimally effective ad. > > Both ads have the same message: America is on the wrong path, and the Chinese are going to eat our lunch because of it. Not because they’re evil, but because we’re being stupid. I don’t think anyone is criticizing the political message as being racist. You are correct in that what people are criticizing is the way the message is presented. Where the disagreement lies, is in the use of the subtext - that is, the way in which the message is presented plays on stereotypes (which are unflattering) concerning the “yellow peril”. To make an imperfect analogy: consider an ad in which the message is that the government should regulate Wall Street more stringently in the wake of the financial meltdown. Nothing offensive about that “message”. Now consider that the ad features a hook-nosed Jew identified as a banker speaking an exaggerated, fake Yiddish accent rubbing his hands in glee over ruining hard-working “real Americans”. Offensive, or not? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/122 "2012-02-07T16:44:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let’s look at if from another perspective. Let’s say some Chinese politician is running a negative ad in which he wants some American to play a part. The American is a guy in jeans, cowboy boots and hat, big belt buckle, and he comes on screen and says: “Howdy, pardner.” Would you Americans actually be offended by that? I’d think it was pretty damn funny. Still waiting for someone to explain how this is either A) offensive and racist or B) not offensive or racist, but somehow different from the commercial in question. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/123 "2012-02-07T16:52:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still waiting for someone to explain how this is either A) offensive and racist or B) not offensive or racist, but somehow different from the commercial in question. Asked and answered: > [@Jas09](#): > > And FTR, I would consider the Chinese ad featuring the stereotypical “American” to be racist as fuck too. “Racist” doesn’t automatically mean “the worst thing ever”. After all, everybody is a little bit racist some times. Hell, some of the funniest humor is racist. This ad was racist, but not to some horrible extreme. It was also pretty dumb and unconvincing. The Simpsons did the “Americaland” thing pretty funnily I thought, in the episode where they went to Japan. Funny =/= Not Racist. And Racist =/= Not Funny. In the Hoekstra ad you have (mildly) racist as well as unfunny. Also significantly off-target politically, as the point he is making doesn’t make any sense with the imagery he’s using. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/124 "2012-02-07T17:29:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still waiting for someone to explain how this is either A) offensive and racist or B) not offensive or racist, but somehow different from the commercial in question. I’d have to know more about how Americans are perceived in China. To my mind, that imagry, while a stereotype, is a more or less positive one - the “Marlboro Man” cowboy thing. I dunno if (or how) the “White peril” is percieved in China itself, and so what sorts of images trigger - and are intended to trigger - a negative reaction, by tapping into Chinese fears of certain foreigners. In short, using a stereotype may, or may not, be an attempt to arouse bigotry. Selling breakfast cereal with a “Lucky Charms” leprauchan, or selling hardware with pictures of a hard-working, thrifty Scot (Canadian Tyre), or for that matter cigarettes with the “Marlboro Man”, isn’t offensive even though it employs stereotypes. The argument is that the particular employment of stereotypes in this ad are intended to tap in to previously-existing negative stereotypes (specifically, the “Yellow Peril”). Assuming there is a difference, that’s the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/125 "2012-02-07T17:32:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still waiting for someone to explain how this is either A) offensive and racist or B) not offensive or racist, but somehow different from the commercial in question. (B) The Chinese “cowboy” equivalent wouldn’t be a bicycle riding rice paddy worker. You think the Chinese romanticize peasant farmers like we romanticize cowboys? Likewise, the stereotypical image of an “American” wouldn’t be a cowboy. You’d get somebody who could only speak English, would should it in a vain attempt to be understood, and behave (by local standards) boorishly. Would that be funny? Sure. But it wouldn’t be accurate and would be considered by some people to be offensive. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/126 "2012-02-07T17:39:37Z")
Pete is such a tool - he’s fooling nobody.Biking thru rice paddies? pidgin english? dragonn ladies and gates to the forbidden city looking like an ad for SPA time. All bad enough, AND to put it in a SUPER BOWL AD? he’s a wooden shoe, born in Gronigen, so who paid for that? his friends in Ada? So glad we have the Nerd instead for guvnr. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/127 "2012-02-07T17:50:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let’s look at if from another perspective. Let’s say some Chinese politician is running a negative ad in which he wants some American to play a part. The American is a guy in jeans, cowboy boots and hat, big belt buckle, and he comes on screen and says: “Howdy, pardner.” Would you Americans actually be offended by that? I’d think it was pretty damn funny. To be honest, if a Chinese politician wanted to portray an American stereotype that was threatening to Chinese audiences, they’d probably go with an African-American guy talking about spreading drugs to China or something touching on a theme that militaristic Americans want to attack China. Stuff in that flavor. Even though it would be farcical to our eyes, I think some kind of Huggy Bear character talking about threatening Chinese people with drugs would be pretty racist. The military threat stuff, I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/128 "2012-02-07T18:08:32Z")
Can’t help but be reminded of what the British said about US soldiers in their midst, WWII. “Oversexed, overpaid, and over here.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/129 "2012-02-07T18:09:08Z")
Is there anything about this ad that is not racist, xenophobic and and stereotyped? Perhaps the mocking of the opponents name was not racist. Asians are poor and ride bikes. Asians speak broken mock English. Asians want to take our jobs (like they don’t need jobs of their own, they need other people’s jobs). On and on. Interesting to see who is claiming there is nothing racist about this ad. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/130 "2012-02-07T18:12:42Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > (B) > > The Chinese “cowboy” equivalent wouldn’t be a bicycle riding rice paddy worker. You think the Chinese romanticize peasant farmers like we romanticize cowboys? Yes, peasant farmers have often been romanticized. That’s actually pretty common in many cultures, including our own. > [@](#): > > Likewise, the stereotypical image of an “American” wouldn’t be a cowboy. You’d get somebody who could only speak English, would should it in a vain attempt to be understood, and behave (by local standards) boorishly. > > Would that be funny? Sure. But it wouldn’t be accurate and would be considered by some people to be offensive. There needn’t be only one stereotype, and “the cowboy” is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/131 "2012-02-07T18:27:24Z")
I question whether anyone of good faith, reasonableness, and adequate intellect could possibly look at this ad and NOT see it as racist and/or xenophobic. It’s truly mind-boggling that person A can call it racist and person B say anything but “Duh!” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/132 "2012-02-07T18:49:33Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Is there anything about this ad that is not racist, xenophobic and and stereotyped? Her shirt? Seriously, the non-stereotyped thing that jumps out is her accent. She sounds like a Californian. It seems pretty clear to me that they avoided any kind of Chinese accent because they figured people would call _that_ racist, but if they just did the broken English, the hat, the rice paddy and the Chinese-sounding music and underplayed the accent, people wouldn’t mind so much. That seems like the kind of thinking you get out of a committee of Hollywood or marketing dopes. Instead we’re left to wonder if the people who made the ad think that Chinese people who speak choppy English can do pitch-perfect accents. However I fail to see the stereotype with regard to the bicycle. I know car ownership in China is kind of low and has been growing quickly, but if I see an Asian person on a bike I don’t think “that’s such a stereotype.” > [@](#): > > Perhaps the mocking of the opponents name was not racist. No, that’s not racist. Compared to the rest of the ad, it’s genius. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/133 "2012-02-07T19:01:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, peasant farmers have often been romanticized. That’s actually pretty common in many cultures, including our own. Really? I doubt there’s more than a few people that long for the days of sharecropping vs the vast number who want to ride the open range. Americans romanticize the idea of “farming” and an old-timey pastoral, agrarian ideal but we don’t romanticize the farmers themselves. For all the stereotypes about being down to earth, humble, and hardworking, we also consider them poorly educated, uncultured hicks with hardly 2 pennies to rub together. So fine, if there was instead, an obese American farmer shotgun in hand “thanking” China for screwing up, chewing on a tobacco leaf and sucking down white lightning out of a jug labeled ‘xxxxx’ while lecherously eying his slack-jawed son (or daughter), that would only be funny and not offensive? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/134 "2012-02-07T19:12:59Z")
“We take your jobs.” I just want to keep reminding people that this quote is on the website that the ad urges you to visit. “We take your jobs.” Honestly. It ACTUALLY says that. Here’s a hint: China is not taking ‘our’ jobs. Chinese people are working in factory-cities for very little pay, to live in crowded dorms, work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week, for a few thousand dollars a year. You want that kind of a job? Go ahead and move to China. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/135 "2012-02-07T19:21:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still waiting for someone to explain how this is either A) offensive and racist or B) not offensive or racist, but somehow different from the commercial in question. Well, if you aren’t going to read the thread and watch the ad and consider things from a point of view that is not your-head-up-your-butt, what else can we do to lead this horse to water **and** make it drink? We get it. You don’t think the ad is racist. Or offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/136 "2012-02-07T19:28:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > However I fail to see the stereotype with regard to the bicycle. I know car ownership in China is kind of low and has been growing quickly, but if I see an Asian person on a bike I don’t think “that’s such a stereotype.” Maybe it’s just a French thing, then. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/137 "2012-02-07T19:33:51Z")
Its always nice to have these kinds of topics as they easily illustrate who the racists are on this board. Keep defending the racist you guys! Show that ignorance! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/138 "2012-02-07T20:08:45Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Its always nice to have these kinds of topics as they easily illustrate who the racists are on this board. Keep defending the racist you guys! Show that ignorance! 😃 Watch that shit. I think **John Mace** is being startlingly obtuse in this thread, but I’ll be damned if I think he’s in any way racist himself. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/139 "2012-02-07T20:19:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Her shirt? It’s yellow. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/140 "2012-02-07T21:26:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > > [@John Mace](#): > > > > Let’s look at if from another perspective. Let’s say some Chinese politician is running a negative ad in which he wants some American to play a part. The American is a guy in jeans, cowboy boots and hat, big belt buckle, and he comes on screen and says: “Howdy, pardner.” Would you Americans actually be offended by that? I’d think it was pretty damn funny. > > Still waiting for someone to explain how this is either A) offensive and racist or B) not offensive or racist, but somehow different from the commercial in question. Who cares? This is a thread about Pete Hoekstra and his Yellow Peril ad. Even if you post 30 ads from random Chinese pols showing Americans in a racist manner, it wouldn’t somehow make Hoekstra’s ad non-racist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939.md?page=8)