# Pete Hoekstra **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939 "2012-02-06T05:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/161 "2012-02-08T03:04:40Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Sure. It’s probably more nationalist than racist, really. But it’s still bigoted, in that there’s a Them we should be fearing/hating for no other reason than that they’re not Us. The point of the ad seems to be we (or rather, the citizens of that state) should be fearing them taking more of our jobs/money. That is a lot of reason more than “they’re not Us”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/162 "2012-02-08T03:34:49Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Yes, but not nearly as much as they were simple fear mongering. Now answer my question. How is the depiction of a chinese girl riding a bike by a rice paddy and speaking clear but slightly poor english more racist than any of my examples? I’m getting to that. If depicting an African-American murderer in the Willie Horton ad is maybe/slightly racist, by your admission, is depicting an African-American murderer in The Wire also racist? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/163 "2012-02-08T03:35:28Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > It’s not even outrage fatigue. It’s tiresome and predictable that a person who doesn’t want to take the time to craft an agenda will reach for the simplistic. I won’t tell you who I am, because it’s enough to know that I’m not with them. Asians. Muslims. Communists. Democrats. Republicans (though democrats do it far less, they still do it). > > Ah. So you’ll tell me how the ad is any more racist than the examples I’ve given. Since he’s clearly wrong and you’re clearly right. How is this ad more racist than footage of a black man playing basketball and speaking in heavy slang/poor english? More racist than Apu on The Simpsons? Than any asian computer geek or martial artist? How is it more racist than any other common display of a possible stereotype in the media? No, I wasn’t judging which was more or less racist, and I don’t give a hoot about your examples. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/164 "2012-02-08T10:53:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do you think the Willie Horton ad was racist? How about the Jesse Helms “Hands” ad? (Google that one in case you don’t remember it.) I don’t think the [Willie Horton ad](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y) was racist. It would have been just as good if Willie Horton was white. Look at the ad and the facts put forth. Nothing racist in the facts. and Willie Horton just happened to be black, Do you think the ad wouldn’t have been run if he had been white? The[Jesse Helms “Hand” ad](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIyewCdXMzk) is different. The topic of the ad is racial quotas, so it’s going to be about that. Yes, Helms is running against a black candidate, but that’s not his fault. I guess one could argue that by showing a picture of the two candidates side-by-side, that he was trying to portray that blacks, generally, supported quotas. But that probably wasn’t far from the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/165 "2012-02-08T11:38:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m getting to that. If depicting an African-American murderer in the Willie Horton ad is maybe/slightly racist, by your admission, is depicting an African-American murderer in The Wire also racist? No more so than the depiction of an irish american cop with a drinking problem. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No, I wasn’t judging which was more or less racist, and I don’t give a hoot about your examples. You just want to flail your arms and go “ZOMG RACIST REPUBLICAN!!” without actually thinking about it. Straight knee jerk reaction. Have fun with that. If indeed you simply want to react and not ponder or discuss, then you’ve said your piece and can safely move on. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/166 "2012-02-08T14:23:16Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > No more so than the depiction of an irish american cop with a drinking problem. I’m not sure you actually answered my question. Do you believe that The Wire is racist for how its portrayal of African Americans? If not, what, in your mind, is the difference between the “mild” racism of the political ads I mentioned before and The Wire? Why is one in poor taste and the other not? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/167 "2012-02-08T15:47:21Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Ah. So… Racist! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/168 "2012-02-08T22:25:31Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not sure you actually answered my question. Do you believe that The Wire is racist for how its portrayal of African Americans? > > If not, what, in your mind, is the difference between the “mild” racism of the political ads I mentioned before and The Wire? Why is one in poor taste and the other not? I’m not sure where you’re going with this, and as you’ve yet to answer my questions I don’t think it’s poor manners to ask for a clarification before we go any farther. Especially since I’m the one saying that the Hoekstra ad isn’t racist and isn’t any worse than comparable depictions of other races that are present in other forms of (less political) media. It seems you’re comparing the Hoekstra ad to the now infamous Willie Horton ad. As it’s been a long time since I’ve seen the ad - I was only 11 at the time - I went back and rewatched it. Having refreshed my memory, I don’t think the Willie Horton ad was racist at all. The point of the ad was that Dukakis would let any criminal just wander out of prison whereas George Bush would kill them himself if given half a chance. Yeah. It showed a black guy, but that was likely simply due to the horrific nature of the crimes committed while on holiday. The commercial was about “scary criminal,” not “scary black guy.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/169 "2012-02-08T23:09:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Racist! 😃 Ha! Friggin genius. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/170 "2012-02-09T00:19:39Z")
I can’t be the only one who was waiting for this (obviously American) actress to say “Me love you long time”. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/171 "2012-02-09T03:03:25Z")
So Barry Goldwater actually did raise the possibility of using nuclear weapons on North Vietnam. Was the “Daisy” ad a legitimate critique of his foreign policy? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/172 "2012-02-09T03:10:32Z")
I think it absolutely was. Nuclear bombs were always discussed in abstract political terminology and nobody ever really confronted the reality of it, the mushroom cloud, human life being instantaneously destroyed. It was a valid thing to bring up. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/173 "2012-02-09T03:15:46Z")
Yeah. When Lyndon Johnson was the peace candidate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/174 "2012-02-09T04:02:22Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > So Barry Goldwater actually did raise the possibility of using nuclear weapons on North Vietnam. > > Was the “Daisy” ad a legitimate critique of his foreign policy? Can you explain how that helps understand if the ad in question is racist or not? I"m just not getting it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/175 "2012-02-09T04:42:53Z")
It’s a bit of a dodge, really, to squabble over whether this ad, or the Willie Horton ad, or any similar ads are racist in and of themselves. Of course they’re crafted with enough plausible deniability for the answer to be “no” even on a close reading—that’s part of the artistry. They aren’t racist in isolation, but they clearly—and successfully—appeal to racist and xenophobic tendencies, and the amorphous fear of the Other. They’re frameworks, coded messages whose holes that are filled in by our own fears. The architects are smart enough to realize that overt racism would inspire a backlash, so instead we’re given symbolic words and images and our subconscious winks and nods. _Message received_, even if sometimes we’re not aware of it. But yes, there’s always another explanation built in to replace the true message, so the propagandists can bat their eyes and feign innocence, while we waste time bickering over whether bicycles and rice paddies are racist. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/176 "2012-02-09T04:46:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The whole thing really does give a yellow peril vibe from where I sit. I don’t think it was subtle at all. “Your economy get weak, ours get strong.” China! Scary! You guys are going to have to explain what “yellow peril” is. And I also don;t see the racism. But it is a very stupid ad. And the chick is very hot. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/177 "2012-02-09T04:49:51Z")
> [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](#): > > You guys are going to have to explain what “yellow peril” is. [“Yellow Peril (sometimes Yellow Terror) was a colour metaphor for race that originated in the late nineteenth century with immigration of Chinese laborers to various Western countries, notably the United States, and later associated with the Japanese during the mid 20th century, due to Japanese military expansion. The term refers to the skin color of East Asians, and the belief that the mass immigration of Asians threatened white wages and standards of living.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/178 "2012-02-09T05:19:41Z")
Attack trained canaries. Turn your back, they muscle through the bars, and pow! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/179 "2012-02-09T05:21:51Z")
The view from Shanghai: [Creepy, racist](http://shanghaiist.com/2012/02/06/watch_creepy_racist_superbowl_ad_by.php). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939/181 "2012-02-09T05:35:19Z")
The ad reminds me of this scene from\* Full Metal Jacket\*. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tce-THLUE&feature=player\_embedded](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tce-THLUE&feature=player_embedded) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-hoekstra/611939.md?page=10)