# Pete Rose dead at 83 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [September 30, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307 "2024-09-30T23:27:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/1 "2024-09-30T23:27:11Z")
Baseball legend Pete Rose has passed away at the age of 83. > **[Report: MLB hit king Pete Rose dies at 83](https://sports.yahoo.com/report-mlb-hit-king-pete-rose-dies-at-83-231616652.html)** > > Pete Rose ended his career as MLB's all-time hits leader. ---
**Author:** ![janis\_and\_c0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janis_and_c0/32/21_2.png) [@janis\_and\_c0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janis_and_c0)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/2 "2024-09-30T23:47:35Z")
Farewell to the great Charlie Hustle. Five bucks says they will put him in Cooperstown next year. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/3 "2024-09-30T23:49:57Z")
> [@janis\_and\_c0](#): > > Five bucks says I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![janis\_and\_c0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janis_and_c0/32/21_2.png) [@janis\_and\_c0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janis_and_c0)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/4 "2024-10-01T00:02:40Z")
I was wondering if anybody would catch that LOL. I didn’t think about the irony at first. That being said, this one gets me in my feels as a Cincinnati Reds fan. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/5 "2024-10-01T00:11:38Z")
An excellent player, who became obsessed with his own numbers and fame, and was incapable of admitting that he screwed up, or showing any contrition. I am absolutely convinced he would have been reinstated, and elected to the Hall of Fame, twenty years ago, if he’d actually been able to admit what he’d done, and stick with an apology, rather than backtracking, and continuing to hang out with gamblers. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/6 "2024-10-01T00:31:03Z")
If I recall correctly, he accepted a lifetime ban, so I would have no problem with him being inducted into the Hall of Fame now. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/7 "2024-10-01T00:36:53Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > If I recall correctly, he accepted a lifetime ban He did, but he was also told that he could apply for reinstatement – which he did, several times, but neither Faye Vincent nor Bud Selig (the first two MLB Commissioners to whom he applied) ever acted on it. Rose then applied to the current commissioner, Rob Manfred, who rejected the application outright. As per [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rose#Hall_of_Fame_eligibility): > [@](#): > > Representatives for Rose applied in 2015 for reinstatement with Selig’s successor, [Rob Manfred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Manfred).[[46]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rose#cite_note-46) However, on December 15 of that year, Manfred rejected the request. Manfred stated that Rose had not been forthcoming about his gambling and that Rose (who by this time was living in [Las Vegas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas)) was still betting on baseball. Although Rose was placing legal bets by this time, MLB has long barred players, managers and coaches from _any_ form of gambling on baseball, legal or otherwise. He also felt that Rose did not have “a mature understanding of his wrongful conduct” and the damage it had done to the game. For these reasons, Manfred concluded that allowing him back in the game would be an “unacceptable risk.”[[47]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rose#cite_note-47) > > In 2020, Rose, along with his lawyers, once again applied for reinstatement. In his petition he states that his gambling did not affect the outcome of games, whereas other players who used steroids or used electronic signs to steal catchers’ signals, did affect games, yet were not banned. He also sent a petition to the Hall of Fame’s board of directors, asking them to repeal their 1991 ban on players on the ineligible list. Neither Manfred nor the Hall of Fame’s directors have responded to this petition.[[48]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rose#cite_note-48) > > In 2022, Rose applied again for reinstatement. In a letter to Manfred, he stated that he “still think[s] every day about what it would mean to be considered for the Hall of Fame”.[[49]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rose#cite_note-49)[[50]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rose#cite_note-50) Manfred quickly rejected the request, and stated that any Hall of Fame discussions would be deferred to the Veteran’s Committee. It has always been clear to me that Rose _desperately_ wanted to be in the Hall, but his ego and his inability to not continue to gamble precluded it. Interviews I had seen with him in recent years suggested, to me, that he was very bitter about having been told that he could apply for reinstatement, but was never actually reinstated. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/8 "2024-10-01T00:57:06Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > he accepted a lifetime ban, so I would have no problem with him being inducted into the Hall of Fame now. Totally agree with this statement. It’s a travesty that the all-time hits leader isn’t in the HOF. As I posted in the Death thread, I didn’t much like him as a player, manager, or person, but he deserves to be in the Hall. Oh, and he was one of the worst baseball announcers ever. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/9 "2024-10-01T01:13:16Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > lifetime ban This may be a matter of semantics, but it looks like the technical term for Rose’s status (as well as that of Shoeless Joe Jackson and others) is “permanently ineligible.” ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/10 "2024-10-01T01:48:08Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Totally agree with this statement. It’s a travesty that the all-time hits leader isn’t in the HOF. Also the all-time outs leader. Which is, for me, why I’m a little more ambivalent about the “Rose in the Hall” debate. Rose got his last few hundred hits by writing his own name into the lineup every day, even when there were better players who merited playing ahead of him. Rose was sufficiently fixated on Cobb’s record that he couldn’t do what was best for the team, and I think that’s a strike against him - and if he had done what was best, it’s doubtful he would have made the MLB record (he had the NL hits record for a long time). He always claimed never to have bet against his own team, but never came to grips with how it was that betting on his own team could change the way he managed depending on how his bets were laid. Still a big part of baseball’s history. HIs 44-game hitting streak in 1978 is one of my first memories of the game. Deserves the HoF because of fame - but for the honor of it? That I’m not quite as sure of. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/11 "2024-10-01T01:57:16Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > Which is, for me, why I’m a little more ambivalent about the “Rose in the Hall” debate. Rose got his last few hundred hits by writing his own name into the lineup every day, even when there were better players who merited playing ahead of him. Rose was sufficiently fixated on Cobb’s record that he couldn’t do what was best for the team, and I think that’s a strike against him - and if he had done what was best, it’s doubtful he would have made the MLB record (he had the NL hits record for a long time). I mean, it’s amazing to me that people seem to forget this, or didn’t know it. To me the record is a bit of a sham for that reason. But, suppose he had actually opted out and not done that – do you think his numbers were still good enough to be HOF? It’s still a lot of damn hits. ---
**Author:** ![TXRebel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@TXRebel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TXRebel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/12 "2024-10-01T01:58:11Z")
Me too but mainly because I think they did him dirty. I can see getting disciplined for it and maybe even suspended for a time but this guy paid for it his whole life. I see some of these athletes doing soooo much worse with little to no repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/13 "2024-10-01T02:06:10Z")
In professional sports, the one and true “line that cannot be crossed” is betting on the sport you’re playing. It has to be. Otherwise, it’s too easy to claim the fix is in. Call it the “Arnold Rothstein Rule” if you’d like. Your team, other teams, it doesn’t matter. It’s too easy for you, as an insider, to have information that the average gambler doesn’t have. And all of the sports have realized that if people lose faith in the gambling on the sports, then they quit betting. Then they quit watching because they have nothing on the line. Then the sweet, sweet dollars go away. And they can’t have that. So the hard and fast rule applies. Pete would be in now if he had admitted his transgressions, apologized, and QUIT GAMBLING. He couldn’t. It was on him. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/14 "2024-10-01T02:11:13Z")
Rose apologized at one point, but made it clear in his apology that he was doing it to get into the Hall. That it, it was insincere. An apology without contrition is just a bunch of empty words. My impression at the time was that he was incapable of seeing things from any point of view but his own. IMO, he’d have gotten into the Hall easily if not for the gambling scandal. He wasn’t a top-tier player, like Mays or Aaron, but he was very good for a long time. The press corps, who do the voting, admired him for his hustle and love of the game. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/15 "2024-10-01T02:21:36Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > He wasn’t a top-tier player, like Mays or Aaron, but he was very good for a long time. Objectively, he almost undoubtedly had the stats for inclusion in the Hall, even beyond the all-time hits record (which, as already noted, he got to in the end by being a player-manager, and putting himself in the lineup). In his career, he earned: - An MVP award (and finished in the top five in voting four other times) - A World Series MVP award - A Rookie of the Year award - Three batting titles - Two Gold Gloves - One Silver Slugger - Led the NL in hits five times - Let the NL in doubles five times - 17 All-Star Games Even if he stuck around too long (playing until age 45), in pursuit of Cobb’s hit title, he remained a very effective hitter and ballplayer for a long time: in 1980, at 40, he hit .282, and led the NL in doubles. The following season, at 41, he hit .325, and led the NL in base hits. And, though we didn’t know about sabermetric stats like WAR when he was playing, Baseball Reference calculates him as having a bWAR score of 5.0+ in eight seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/16 "2024-10-01T02:39:46Z")
The back to back World Series in 75/76 were some of the most exciting baseball I’ve ever seen. He was truly Charley Hustle. It was a great lineup. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/17 "2024-10-01T02:41:33Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > But, suppose he had actually opted out and not done that – do you think his numbers were still good enough to be HOF? It’s still a lot of damn hits. Well yeah, he was a hell of a player in his prime. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/18 "2024-10-01T02:48:21Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > Rose got his last few hundred hits by writing his own name into the lineup every day, even when there were better players who merited playing ahead of him. Rose managed from mid-1984 through 1989. He played for ‘himself’ in 1984, 1985, and 1986. He broke the record in September of 1985, a season in which he played 119 games. He played in just 72 games in 1986. Saying that he wrote himself into the lineup ‘every day’ is a bit of a stretch. Were there players better than him? Perhaps. But the Reds won 89 games in 1985, so obviously he was doing something right. And he batted .264. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/19 "2024-10-01T02:49:52Z")
> [@TXRebel](#): > > because I think they did him dirty Rose was given many chances to atone to MLB, and continued to flip them off. > [@TXRebel](#): > > I see some of these athletes doing soooo much worse with little to no repercussions Gambling on the sport has always very clearly defined as the absolute cardinal rule to not break. There is no worse. Other than maybe repeated statutory rape, but luckily Charlie Hustle also had that in the bag. I continue to be amazed that people want to defend that piece of garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307/20 "2024-10-01T03:01:02Z")
I sympathize with Rose and understand the addictive nature of gambling. But if he was given many chances to apologize, I don’t blame the Hall of Fame for not electing him despite worthy statistics and many impressive accomplishments. These are not really changed by whether or not he would be elected. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pete-rose-dead-at-83/1008307.md?page=2)