# Peter Dinklage Rips Disney For ‘Snow White’ Remake: ‘What The F\*\*k Are You Doing?!’ **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [January 25, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359 "2022-01-25T13:44:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/765 "2023-08-30T14:59:08Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > What would those fairy tales look like in a grown-up market? FWIW, if you’re interested in a literary take on the question, Ellen Datlow and Terri Windling compiled a superb set of anthologies to answer this question. I think my favorite was Ruby Slippers, Golden Tears. > **[Ruby Slippers, Golden Tears](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Slippers,_Golden_Tears)** > > Ruby Slippers, Golden Tears is the third book in a series of collections of re-told fairy tales edited by Ellen Datlow and Terri Windling. > > This article about a collection of fantasy short stories published in the 1990s is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. This article about a collection of horror short stories published in the 1990s is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/766 "2023-08-30T15:04:59Z")
Moderating: > [@MrDibble](#): > > But by all means, keep slyly implying I’m a child, you’re being sooo subtle about it 🙄 It certainly makes me take your argument seriously. Please remember that this is Cafe, not the pit. This (and at least in your reading, the post it replied to) are veering towards making it personal, which is not appropriate in Cafe. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/767 "2023-08-30T15:05:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The character I have empathy for here is the young girl brainwashed into True Love bullshit. YMMV. I know it was a story decision arrived at very late in the day, but Frozen really is a riposte to this. Particularly with respect to the enamorising properties of duets - in both films the sheltered young princess meets a handsome prince, sings a song with him and promptly falls deeply in love. But in Frozen that turns out - as wiser heads tell her - to be delusional. Anna doesn’t have the first clue about what Hans is really like and believing in her love for him gets her in a lot of trouble. I know that seems like a very modern take and it is, and that is the version they went with, but by all accounts for most of the production time, they were going to play it straight with Hans as the Good Prince Who Saves The Day With The Power Of True Love which in retrospect seems astonishing. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/768 "2023-08-30T15:18:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But by all means, keep slyly implying I’m a child, you’re being sooo subtle about it I certainly didn’t mean to imply anything of the sort. Rather, I was keeping in mind that Disney cartoon movies are largely intended for and seen by children, and so it behooves us to consider how children will understand and interpret and be influenced by them. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/769 "2023-08-30T15:33:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I feel like the people who are saying, “it’s not creepy because the story says its not creepy” are sort of missing the main thrust of the criticism. ⁢ I don’t see anyone who has made that argument. The issue was that several people, in calling it “creepy” were misstating what actually happened in the film. In the film, Snow White and the Prince are depicted as falling in love at first sight in song. Then Snow goes missing so the prince goes and looks for her, only finding her after she is apparently dead. He kisses her goodbye, but this revives her. You are free to argue that this is a violation of consent, or that the kiss felt creepy. But if you argue that he just came up and kissed a pretty dead girl, then you are incorrect. If you claim that all they did was sing together, then you misunderstand the genre and the intent of that scene. Personally, I’d argue the creepier part is that the dwarfs explicitly didn’t bury her because she was “so beautiful.” > Narrator: So beautiful, even in death, that the dwarfs could not find it in their hearts to bury her. They fashioned a coffin of glass and gold, and kept eternal vigil at her side. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/770 "2023-08-30T15:43:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The character I have empathy for here is the young girl brainwashed into True Love bullshit. YMMV. Exactly right. That’s why your statement about not being able to read the minds of fictional characters feels so at-odds with the rest of what you’ve said. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/771 "2023-08-30T15:45:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t see anyone who has made that argument. You’re making it right now. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/772 "2023-08-30T17:54:10Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Perhaps not in this case but it is an interesting train of thought. What would those fairy tales look like in a grown-up market? Snow White been done: > **[Snow White and the Huntsman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_White_and_the_Huntsman)** > > Snow White and the Huntsman is a 2012 American fantasy film based on the German fairy tale "Snow White" compiled by the Brothers Grimm. The directorial debut of Rupert Sanders, it was written by Evan Daugherty, John Lee Hancock and Hossein Amini, from a screen story by Daugherty. The cast includes Kristen Stewart, Charlize Theron, Chris Hemsworth, Sam Claflin, and Bob Hoskins in his final film performance. In the film's retelling of the tale, Snow White grows up imprisoned by her evil stepmothe... They _of course_ make other changes to the source material to market to the target they aim for. _Wicked_ is another property that immediately comes to mind. Basically it’s like famous old songs having covers done. Some are faithful and some are novel new interpretations. Some are takes for preschoolers and some are for a mature crowd. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/773 "2023-08-30T18:27:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Calling it murder is cultural insensitivity. It’s just their way to rip still-beating hearts out” > “Calling it child rape is cultural insensitivity. Having child brides is just their tradition” > “Calling it mutilation is cultural insensitivity. Hacking off clitorises with rusty razor blades is a folkway we must respect” Those are all crimes. Kissing a loved one goodbye is not a crime. This post is hypocritical. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “But my culture” is a reasonable defense of differences in manners and cultural norms, as opposed to morals. The things you mention are moral offenses and demonstrably harm people. What kind of treatment of dead bodies is acceptable and respectful vs. creepy is cultural. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > ad absurdum, > > All those examples you give are of serious, material, physical harm being inflicted on an innocent person. > > They do not compare well to the (fairly widespread) example of kissing a corpse. A corpse that presumably was comfortable with the practice having been immersed in said culture. > > I can’t speak for DrDeth but certainly I’d say that we have no business interfering or judging aspects of other cultures that cause no harm. Exactly. Good posts. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You are right though, appealing to culture is not a “get out of jail free card” but I don’t think DrDeth was playing that card in that way, I could be wrong. They seemed to be speaking specifically about this practice. Right. Certainly some cultures practices are dangerous, violent, and harmful. There is no excuse to FGM for example. But if Moslem women wish to wear a burka , or Jewish men a yarmulke, or surfer dudes board shorts, or whatever- those are harmless cultural traditions. Making fun of them and calling them creepy is bigoted. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m freaked out by the thought of having open caskets or even seeing the dead body of a loved one , that’s my own subjective feeling though and not the problem of the culture that carries it out. Oh,. I understand, and certainly no one should be forced to do that. > [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s the stranger kissing the not-actually-dead only-just-teen girl he has no _actual_ relationship with. As you have been told dozens of times- he is not a stranger. They love one another. Nor is she 14. You’re just making shit up here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/774 "2023-08-30T18:29:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > This post is hypocritical. That’s not what “hypocritical” means. > [@DrDeth](#): > > As you have been told dozens of times- he is not a stranger. They love one another. That’s kind of at the crux of the conversation. You suggest that someone you’ve known for less than an hour, several months or years ago, can be “not a stranger,” and that there can be meaningful talk of love between the two. I, and others, think that’s scurrilous nonsense that is part of an ugly message to give to kids. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/775 "2023-08-30T18:38:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > an ugly message to give to kids. It was the romantic fantasy trope of the time. Eyes locked across the room. Cue the music. The one dance. Not ugly per se but very very dated. I may love my wife and she me but sex with her comatose would be a violation. No a kiss isn’t sex but love each other is not sufficient to preclude consent. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/776 "2023-08-30T18:39:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Kissing a loved one goodbye is not a crime. Kissing someone without consent IS a crime. She’s not his wife, or his grandmother. She’s a girl he fell in lust love with without ever having an actual relationship with her. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/777 "2023-08-30T18:45:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You suggest that someone you’ve known for less than an hour, The film is 83 minutes long, any relationship would be less than an hour. Clearly, not every minute of their relationship is shown. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Kissing someone without consent IS a crime. She’s not his wife, or his grandmother. She’s a girl he fell in lust love with without ever having an actual relationship with her. Kissing a dead person is not. The filom makes is clear they are deeply truly in true love. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/778 "2023-08-30T18:56:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The film is 83 minutes long, any relationship would be less than an hour. I’m sorry, you’ve said this before, and i didn’t respond, but i now feel the need to reply. It takes seconds to show a montage of snapshots of two people doing stuff together. It’s a common trope in movies/video to quickly show a lengthy relationship. There are other ways to show a lengthy relationship that don’t take much screen time. For instance, we learn that she’d been “dead” for a while (the dwarfs would normally have buried her). One doesn’t ordinarily bury bodies within 83 minutes of death, either. If they had had a relationship beyond that one song on the movie, the movie would have made that clear. They didn’t. They saw each other, sang a bit, “fell in love” , and never saw each other again until the prince finds the body. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/779 "2023-08-30T18:56:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Clearly, not every minute of their relationship is shown. Is that clear, though? Like, what else is implied? Did they go to dinner together? Did they play tennis? Did they dance at balls? My impression is that that entire scene comprised their entire premortem relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/780 "2023-08-30T19:15:12Z")
I mean, this is ridiculous, but I went to Disney to check, and while I was technically right, I should make a correction. The Prince appears at 4:47, as part of her song. By 6:57, he’s gone. The movie is real-time for that segment, no montage or discontinuity of time. Snow White sees him, runs away, and then swoonily listens to him serenade her for about two minutes solid. When I said she’d known him for “less than an hour,” I shoulda said “less than three minutes.” The next scene is the queen sending the huntsman after her; and the next time we see Snow White, she’s shooting the shit with a blue bird. She moons around about him to the dwarfs, but she never indicates that she’s had a full 150 seconds of getting to know him. She’s got a schoolgirl’s crush. And the prince doesn’t know that. He never sees her again before kissing her. It’s real weird that folks think that’s the basis of a loving relationship. I mean, sure, in a fairy tale it stands in for it; but we’re talking about lessons for kids to infer, and there’s nothing here to contradict the unease I and others feel at the prince’s behavior. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/781 "2023-08-30T19:19:57Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It takes seconds to show a montage of snapshots of two people doing stuff together. I The idea behind the film was totally new, groundbreaking, and considered by many to be foolish. Disney chose not to show that, concentrating on songs, etc. The idea that he had to show a long developing relationship in order that a kiss on a dead true loved not be considered creepy by some people in the 21st century did not and could not occur to him. No one talking about the kiss being "non-consensual’ until quite recently. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/782 "2023-08-30T19:36:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > > an ugly message to give to kids. > > It was the romantic fantasy trope of the time. Eyes locked across the room. Cue the music. The one dance. Not ugly per se but very very dated. You’re right that “love at first sight” or “instantaneous recignition of one’s True Love” is a common trope (and not just in fantasy—“Some enchanted evening you may see a stranger across a crowded room”). It’s not ugly, but it may be misleading and harmful. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/783 "2023-08-30T19:39:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It takes seconds to show a montage of snapshots of two people doing stuff together. It’s a common trope in movies/video to quickly show a lengthy relationship. [“I can’t believe we just met yesterday.”](https://youtu.be/XTSjhm2t8ms?t=39) ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359/784 "2023-08-30T19:58:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > It takes seconds to show a montage of snapshots of two people doing stuff together. I > > The idea behind the film was totally new, groundbreaking, and considered by many to be foolish. Disney chose not to show that, concentrating on songs, etc. The idea that he had to show a long developing relationship in order that a kiss on a dead true loved not be considered creepy by some people in the 21st century did not and could not occur to him. No one talking about the kiss being "non-consensual’ until quite recently. I don’t think you understand the concerns of a good portion of the posters here. The discussion started around the question: is it a good idea to reimagine parts of the Snow White story for a modern audience? It doesn’t really matter if people in the 1930s were talking about the kiss being non-consensual. The question is, how does the target audience view it today, and do we think the message the audience will take from it is a good thing or bad thing? Nonsense about “but it shows murder too!” is just that, nonsense. It’s not what is shown that matters, but how it is viewed. Is it portrayed positively? Is the audience able to contextualize what they’re seeing? Can they understand it as a product of a bygone era? The prime target audience for Snow White is young girls. They don’t see two people “fall in true love” in 3 minutes and think, well, in real life, they should date a long time to determine if they are compatible. Instead, girls get the message that it’s normal to commit to a man because he pursues them and is handsome, without getting to know him. Kids don’t come away with the idea that kisses actually revive dead people in real life. But they do see a man who sees something, takes what he wants with no input from the woman, and it all works out perfectly and everyone is happy. Sure, kids aren’t going to be able to express that thought if you ask them outright, but it is certainly internalized along with all the other BS that girls are subject to every day. And that has an impact. Just look how many people in this thread somehow have the notion that true love can be found in 3 minutes, or that inability to grant consent means consent isn’t needed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peter-dinklage-rips-disney-for-snow-white-remake-what-the-f-k-are-you-doing/958359.md?page=40)