# Petition to Change English Grammar **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698 "2000-10-20T19:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Susu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Susu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susu)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/1 "2000-10-20T19:31:57Z")
I was always taught that if a word or phrase in quotes falls at the end of a sentence, the punctuation should come before the last quote. Perhaps this comes from long hours of coding VB, but I think this is quite silly, as the punctuation is not being quoted. In technical writing, I often have to quote words or phrases exactly. This has caused me great grief over the years, as the period inside the quotes can be interpreted by non-technical readers as being part of the quote itself. For example. Click Start/Run, and type “command.” That just doesn’t look right. I prefer. . . Click Start/Run and type “command”. But that’s not gramatically correct. Anyone else out there think that this should be changed? ---
**Author:** ![G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.B.H.Hornswoggler)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2000, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/2 "2000-10-20T20:07:45Z")
Well, you _could_ move to England. Punctuation outside of quotes is the standard style on that side of the pond. In general, this is a Style Question. If you’re writing for publication, you’ll want to follow house style. If not, then do it the way you want to. Nobody’s going to come after you for improper use of a period, after all. The important thing is to pick one style and be consistent with it. ---
**Author:** ![scratch1300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@scratch1300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch1300)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/3 "2000-10-20T20:11:47Z")
I used to do the first, e.g., “command.” Then I read somewhere that there _was_, indeed, controversy about the proper way. So, because it looked more natural, I now do, e.g., “command”. I don’t remember where I read this, it might’ve been Theodore Bernstein’s _The Careful Writer_, but I’ll try to look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/4 "2000-10-21T01:03:39Z")
In a case like your example, I’d recommend to type it as Click Start/Run and type “command”. and attach a note explaining why changing it for “style” purposes runs a good chance of creating a misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/5 "2000-10-21T01:55:22Z")
The period ends the sentence, not just the bit in brackets. Does that make me British? It just makes more sense. Well, to me. Period. ---
**Author:** ![annalamerino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@annalamerino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annalamerino)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/6 "2000-10-21T02:12:53Z")
The rule about moving the dot inside the quote is historically traced to one of the Chicago newspaper giants at the turn of the century. The publisher started to get picky about all sorts of “problems”, like periods getting cut off or forgotten, and single words lost at the end of a column. So he changed the rules. The Brits, to their honor, kept the originals. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/7 "2000-10-21T02:27:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Click Start/Run and type “command”. **YES!** Absolutely, it looks, feels, smells & just plain old tastes better that way. Placing the period inside the quotes suggests (to me, at least) that there is a full sentence (or at least an independant clause) within the quotes. Placing the period inside just looks awkward. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/8 "2000-10-21T04:59:14Z")
I am also unanimous in this 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/9 "2000-10-21T06:22:26Z")
If the quoted text is a complete sentence, then the closing punctuation goes inside the quote. If the quoted text is not a complete sentence, then it goes outside the quote. Anything else looks silly to me. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/10 "2000-10-21T09:28:20Z")
I, too, agree. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/11 "2000-10-22T01:29:14Z")
Right. The English language can be changed by petition. I vote to remove all verbs. King Canute would be proud of you. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/12 "2000-10-22T14:45:04Z")
I guess it’s because I’m American and I live and breathe by the _Chicago Manual of Style_. Because of that, I have a fondness and a comfort with American puncutation rules. To be fair, though, it does make more sense to put the punctuation outside of the quotation marks, brackets and parentheses, but there’s a lot that doesn’t make sense. If you want to concentrate on making English make sense, then you’ll inevitably have to take on the sticky issue of spelling reform, which I simply would want to touch. If you want to talk about reforming English _grammar_, well, I have a few ideas. But the American version of English punctuation is something I’m comfortable with, and I see no pressing need to change something that I find aesthetically appealing. So I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![shimmery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@shimmery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shimmery)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/13 "2000-10-22T18:30:41Z")
My English teacher was complaining the other day about how now it’s becoming acceptable again to leave the period out of the quotes, but of course _we’re_ still not allowed to do it. Also I think if you’re giving technical instructions or something like …type “command”, it’s okay to bend the rules a little to avoid confusion. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2000, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petition-to-change-english-grammar/37698/14 "2000-10-22T19:28:25Z")
That’s what I love about the SDMB. Here, I’me free to follow the British rules and use British spellings. And there’s nothing you people can do to stop me. BWAHAHAHAHA! Is there an English equivalent to the _Chicago Manual_?